Self tensioning guylines...WHY?

I am new to all of this so please bear with me.

What is the purpose of having the self tensioning guyline setups versus just using Zing-It from stake to tarp?

I have a Warbonnet Superfly. I watched the newer tarp setup video by KBWADDY (Brandon from Warbonnet?), and it shows tying the tarp direct to the stake. It seems so simple.

I have been reading a bunch on here about self tensioning set ups. They all seem extremely high on the Gadgety & Fidgety Meter! I was just about going to pull the trigger on the Shane setup with shock cord and mini-loks and I thought what the heck am I doing this for?

What am I not getting?

silnylon tarps stretch, which results in a loose pitch. self tensioning guylines help keep the tarp taut when it stretches

I have run and without. They are nice for a setup that is going to see rind or a bit of wind, apart from that i have been happy to run with a straigh line to peg solution.

All you need for the self tensioning guylines is your normal piece of cordage and a piece of shock cord LINK

What I like about them is that if I or someone else trips over one of my guylines then there is some give to the lines and the tarp has less of a change of ripping.

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Originally Posted by ahhhgladius

silnylon tarps stretch, which results in a loose pitch

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especially if if rains and they get wet, the self tensioning lines also add a bit of protection from you tarp tearing in really strong winds, they will stretch in a gust and also offer a weak point that will hopefully break before your tarp will tear

boot

There is some stretch to silnylon after initial set up as ahhhhgladius said but it also stretches a bit when wet so having self tensioning lines allow a taut pitch without tightening lines. Having some give in high wind is also a bonus as Lepmeister mentioned. I do not use self tensioning lines as I am happy to tighten my lines when needed and I like more of a taut pitch than self tensioning lines provide. YMMV.

I use them for because they take up the slack when the sil gets wet, without them I find my Superfly gets saggy after rain.

Second reason is they add a bit more protection in strong winds, taking some of the stress of the stitching of the tie outs.


EDIT:

Too slow again :)

I don't use them. Like you, I try to avoid gadgetry. With over 30 backwoods nights/year in all seasons and weather conditions I have never had issues with just using tautline hitches to get the tarp super tight. Elastic self-tensioners will take up some slack, but will still never be as tight as just cord.

I understand the need but have been avoiding adding more "stuff" to my set up. Then I saw this post: http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ht=rubber+band

That is simple enough even I don't mind it. I am gonna give it a try.

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Originally Posted by DuctTape

Elastic self-tensioners will take up some slack, but will still never be as tight as just cord.

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That depends on the size shock cord your using. The first roll I bought to make them when I first got my tarp, was 1/4" shock cord with a heavy duty sheath. I felt I would of ripped the tarp before I had a single piece of that stretched out. Now I use 1/8" doubled over if I remember correctly, and wrap the cord around it in a spiral to keep it neat. (I know I know, a piece of 1/8" doubled over is the same as a 1/4", but it wasn't even close in regards to tension strength.)

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Originally Posted by fallkniven

Now I use 1/8" doubled over if I remember correctly, and wrap the cord around it in a spiral to keep it neat. (I know I know, a piece of 1/8" doubled over is the same as a 1/4", but it wasn't even close in regards to tension strength.)

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Your doubled over 1/8" shock cords certainly give you more tension, but it is only about half of what you get with (1) 1/4" cord based on comparing cross-sections.

Let's go to the chalkboard. (2) 1/8" shock cords have a combined cross-section (pi x radius squared) of .0245 square inches. (1) 1/4" shock cord has a cross-section of .049 square inches. To approximate the same cross sectional area of elastic between the two diameters, you would need (4) 1/8" shock cords.

I hope this helps once you wipe all of the geek off of it.

SouthernExposure

I broke down and ordered 100FT of 1/8 shock cord from Supply Captain.

I am not into Gadgetry, but I may make up a few and test them out.

Thanks for the replies!

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Originally Posted by SouthernExposure

Your doubled over 1/8" shock cords certainly give you more tension, but it is only about half of what you get with (1) 1/4" cord based on comparing cross-sections.

Let's go to the chalkboard. (2) 1/8" shock cords have a combined cross-section (pi x radius squared) of .0245 square inches. (1) 1/4" shock cord has a cross-section of .049 square inches. To approximate the same cross sectional area of elastic between the two diameters, you would need (4) 1/8" shock cords.

I hope this helps once you wipe all of the geek off of it.

SouthernExposure

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I understand why, but when I typed it out, I thought I might get a "...but it's the same thing, no?" Cool see the math for it though.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Tettnanger

I broke down and ordered 100FT of 1/8 shock cord from Supply Captain.

I am not into Gadgetry, but I may make up a few and test them out.

Thanks for the replies!

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Actually I and many people use long lengths of shock cord for the side panel pulls.

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Originally Posted by Bubba

Actually I and many people use long lengths of shock cord for the side panel pulls.

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I was thinking about that. I may use it for the door tieouts as well.

How do you connect/set that up?

I have a Hennessy Hammock. It came with a rain fly that will just cover the hammock. There is little room for error. On the AT in 2004, eating dinner under the tarp, rain filled my hammock, with my sleeping bag & dry clothes in it.

There are only two tie outs on this fly. I've reinforced the tie outs, and use 1/4 shock cord. I wish I would have known this trick in 2004 & 2005, it would have saved me from some wet nights in big storms, & getting in & out of my hammock.

For me, there is no fiddle factor at all. The few grams of added weight for safety and added convenience is well worth it.

Back when I started hammocking I tried shockcord tensioners. 2-1/8" and found I could never get the tension I wanted on the tarp unless I stretched the shockcord to its limit
which kind of defeats the design. I have since gone back to straight tie-outs.
YMMV

Why would you not simply at a loop of shock cord to the tie outs then tie the guy line to that? Seems it would do the same thing and be easier to set up.

I believe the problem there is if the shockcord breaks.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Tettnanger

I was thinking about that. I may use it for the door tieouts as well.

How do you connect/set that up?

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I have about 8 feet of shock on each side of my tarp. I actually tied each end of the shock cord to each of the panel pulls in effect creating a "V" with the top of the "V" being the two panel pulls. I larkshead about 8 feet of line that either goes to the ground or to a nearby tree or branch. I can slide the line along the shock cord in case the natural anchor point is not exactly in the middle of the tarp. To get a horizontal pull on the "V" when there are no nearby trees, I can put a trekking pole or branch at the bottom of the "V" where the shock cord and line meet and then secure the line to the ground which creates a "Y". Because the there is pull from 3 directions, the trekking pole which is at the centre of the "Y"is pretty stable.

For my doors I have about 2 and a half feet per door. Its a good length to secure to the opposite corner to keep the doors closed or I stake them at the base of the tree to have the doors partially opened. If I want to stake or tie them out further, I just grab some spare line I always carry.

Watched it this weekend... The guys without self tensioners had his tent pegs pull out in high winds... I was set up in the same direction, same dirt, similar stakes, and my tarp with tensioners held fine all night...

I'm sold that it was the tensioners that saved it...

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Originally Posted by Brute1100

Watched it this weekend... The guys without self tensioners had his tent pegs pull out in high winds... I was set up in the same direction, same dirt, similar stakes, and my tarp with tensioners held fine all night...

I'm sold that it was the tensioners that saved it...

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A while back I remember reading where in high wind a self tensioner turned a pulled out stake into a projectile that damaged the tarp.

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Originally Posted by Bubba

A while back I remember reading where in high wind a self tensioner turned a pulled out stake into a projectile that damaged the tarp.

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I see where they could get that... But if the wind was strong enough to pull the stake out, couldn't it have pulled it out and hurt the tarp without the shock cord being involved... I am not saying anyone has to follow my logic or idea, hang your own hang, but from what I saw it makes sense...

I do concede that the shock cord makes a sling shot out of the stake, but if the wind is blowing hard enough to rip the stake out, its going to be moving at a certain speed regardless of shock cords involvement...

I use the figure nines made by nite eyez I think. I keep the nine on the tarp end so I dont have to come out from under my tarp to tighten them. I can get a tighter tarp without self tensioning lines, they dont get tight enough for me.

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Originally Posted by Hotdogman

I use the figure nines made by nite eyez I think. I keep the nine on the tarp end so I dont have to come out from under my tarp to tighten them. I can get a tighter tarp without self tensioning lines, they dont get tight enough for me.

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If you run them where the zing it is backing it up you can get it just as tight... I have two eyes tied in my zingit, between the two eyes is a loop of shock cord, so even if the shock cord breaks the zingit is still there... Crank down on it as tight as you want, the zingit takes the load, when it rains the shock cord takes up the slack...

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Originally Posted by Brute1100

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I do concede that the shock cord makes a sling shot out of the stake, but if the wind is blowing hard enough to rip the stake out, its going to be moving at a certain speed regardless of shock cords involvement...

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Can't remember the details and it was probably just a combination of all the right factors that made it happen. Just posting what I remember reading.

The nite eyes things I was talking about look similar to dutch stingers or flyclips. Nite eyes makes both styles too. They sell a set of four stinger like things with eight feet of reflective tie out cord on each fir ten bucks. The bigger ones with the clip are three or fout bucks each, for the 50lb size. They also make larger ones with a 150lb load rating that work great securing my kayak on the car roof rack.

Brandon personally recommended ditching the tensioners on my tarp when he saw 'em, stating that if you crank the tarp tight enough to begin with, despite some stretch, it'll still be tight in the morning; I witnessed this with his Cloudburst. Soon as I got home, I ditched the tensioners (as well as CRL with prussics) and, now, get a much tighter pitch than I could have hoped for before.

If the designer and manufacturer of the tarp recommends not having tensioners, then I'm not going to have tensioners.

This is for a Superfly, however, and I can't speak to how well this works with other tarps. The SF is built incredibly well and can be cranked down tighter than a guitar string without damage.

My $0.02.

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Originally Posted by Kyle

Brandon personally recommended ditching the tensioners on my tarp when he saw 'em, stating that if you crank the tarp tight enough to begin with, despite some stretch, it'll still be tight in the morning; I witnessed this with his Cloudburst. Soon as I got home, I ditched the tensioners (as well as CRL with prussics) and, now, get a much tighter pitch than I could have hoped for before.

If the designer and manufacturer of the tarp recommends not having tensioners, then I'm not going to have tensioners.

This is for a Superfly, however, and I can't speak to how well this works with other tarps. The SF is built incredibly well and can be cranked down tighter than a guitar string without damage.

My $0.02.

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Thanks for posting this... I am glad to know his opinion. Simpler is better in my book anyway, so now I'm going to skip the tensioners. Good thing I still want shock cord on my doors or else that purchase would be a complete waste. :)

I use a few of these. They also do double duty to attach my CCF pad to my pack.

http://ocfworkshop.com/wp-content/up...all_bungee.jpg

Go to the (tothewoods) justjeff 's site and see some of the ones he made

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Originally Posted by Mr. Tettnanger

I was thinking about that. I may use it for the door tieouts as well.

How do you connect/set that up?

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I have 3ft lengths tied onto my side pull outs, I loop those over the handle of a trekking pole and then stake a line out.

I had SC on my old Superfly door tie outs, I went for the same system on my new camo one too. I have 4ft lengths on my doors with a cord lock at the plastic triangle. I threaded a small keyring loop onto the triangles and then the cord lock acts as a stopper. I have mitten hooks on my ends but they're pretty useless, the stainless hooks on my old SF worked much better. I need to change those one day if I find some decent ones.