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I am ready to buy my first TQ but before I do I would like to understand them better, could you folks give me some information.
Ok I have never used a TQ, could someone please give me some advantages and disadvantages of switching from a sleeping bag to a top quilt?
I would like to understand them a little better before shelling out the money for one and finding out its not really right for me.
Ok more info
I am using a hennessy hyperlite with HH supershelter and if needed an HH top cover
Ok so this is what I think so far from reading and watching vids on TQ, now I expect I may have some of these wrong due to the fact I have not used one.
Advantages
1.lighter than same fill sleeping bag
2.less bulk
3.more arm room
4.easier to move around in.
5.more comfort due to blanket style insulation just like at home.
don't have any more cuz I haven't used one yet, I'm sure I'm missing some.
Disadvantages
1.more drafty compared to a mummy bag and my not be warm for everyone.
2.not EN rated
3.cost just as much as a full mummy bag
4.not made by major manufactures, no warranty
5.could be hard to keep tucked in for a toss and turn sleeper
6.no high tech chambers like the big sleeping bag manufactures use
This is what I think could be the case
So would everone here say that a sleeping bag has no advantages in a hammock over a TQ?
I can accept that if it is the case.
i think your logic is wrong. your advantages are all correct but you're brainwashed by 'big store talk'. you may read my comments with a tone but these quilt vendors deserve more respect for their labors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwrider
1. TQ's in general can be more draffy than a mommy bag. however, many manufactures that sell on this site have introduced the option to add draft collars to their TQ's along with several other options if one finds they need such features. not to mention, when in a hammock you have far more 'surrounding' material via hammock body, bug net and UQ that help combat against air movement which impacts drafts. in addition, more people don't shift around as much in a hammock therefore heat retention along with shifting of the TQ is minimal lessening drafts.
can you call up or email you big store name and say hey, i'm a little on the cold side when sleeping - could you add another 0.5oz in the footbox or taper the shell slightly? here you can.
2. the EN rating is b.s. any TQ sold on HF through many of these very good vendors could rival any crackjacker at large box stores. an EN rating is a fancy test that doesn't mean anything really. it's just means for big stores to sell things at a higher price. if an EN rating is telling me comfort is down to 20 and the actual survival of the bag would be down to 5 or 10 and you put to people in the same bag i highly doubt both are comfortable at the same exact temperature. it's a nice pitch for big stores to sell and differentiate between a perceived higher end bag than another. i would trust any vendor on this site over any pamphlet given to me at a store. the EN rating was put in place to reduce the amount of trash being put on the market and to help your weekend warrior backpacker. it's like a seat belt, if everyone just drove right you wouldn't need them but in stead the general public had to be protected against itself.
3. you said cost just as much but what do you think about profit? so what i gather here is you don't want to pay for all the R&D that went into a TQ design and for a product that is hand made by a member that if needed to you could speak to them. the cost established through these vendors is for their time, materials, love and unfortunately to compensate for some of their frustrations. not to mention, it's made here.
4. i'm pretty sure anyone of these vendors will warranty any of their products for any manufacture defect. if you had a leaking problem, fabric for some reason separates and i've heard of vendors warranting 2nd owner products.
5. some vendors add side loops so you can run shock cord or webbing from side to side to prevent this or you can have it customized to have snaps higher up.
6. your high tech chambers are for one not needed in a hammock and two add cost to a product due to manufacturing time.
I'd like to add, that the cottage vendors here are fellow hikers and hammock campers and they know what we need. They took lots of time to create what is best for making us comfortable in our nice big hammocks. Every cottage vendor here is outstanding , and will go above and beyond to make sure we get what we need, and will stand behind their product.
TQ vs Sleeping Bag, there is no comparison, a sleeping bag in a hammock is a PITA. It is too heavy, and bulky, and a TQ is so nice and comfy warm and light weight. Ah yes, the TQ wins with flying colors. Go to a local hang and check it out for yourself. You will see what I am talking about.
Good question! A few years before I became a hanger, I looked into hammocks and this is the thing that stopped me from even trying one. I paid the price of that mistake by sleeping on the cold, hard, rocky, sloping ground for a few more years. ;) So, here is my advice.
Ditch the sleeping bag and go with a top quilt for maximum comfort in a hammock. In fact, half of my ground dwelling friends have abandoned bags for quilts. Can a sleeping bag work in a hammock. Yes, but it helps if you are a former olympic gymnast. :)
Cost wise, the vendors here on the forums are making top quality, premium quilts. They are less expensive then my Western Mountaineering bags, which are also in the same category. It is true that top & bottom quilts combined are more expensive than one bag. That is probably the main disadvantage to hammocking.
Warranty? You'll have to go by faith on this one, but I am convinced that you will get much better after-purchase service from one of our vendors than you will from a mass produced company, warranty or no warranty.
Drafts: make sure your quilt is wide enough for you and that problem doesn't exist. (Remember that a ground quilt needs to be wider than a hammock quilt because the bottom quilt in a hammock wraps up around you, whereas the ground doesn't).
Just because a lot of us use quilts doesn't mean they are right for everybody, but you should get some comfort knowing we all had similar concerns about drafts, warmth, etc and have found quilts have met the challenge.
For me, the quilt was lighter, took up less room in the backpack, and didn't result in any downsides. It has worked both on the ground and in a hammock. I also like being able to kick out a leg while sleeping to help moderate the temperature. Getting the width right is important - if you are broad shouldered, say, then you don't want something too skinny.
On the flip side, you could probably unzip a sleeping bag and use it quilt-like and get the same results. If you got a large enough bag, it could go around the entire hammock to keep you warm, ala Shug's videos on this.
Good luck choosing.
A cheap way to test out the "top quilt" theory is take a blanket , pin a foot box, and get in your hammock. You'll see right away the difference between that and using a sleeping bag.
The cheapest way, is to unzip your sleeping bag till you have only left a foot box and use it just like a quilt...then think about how much more comfortable it will be without the zipper on both ends or running down the middle of your footbox and add in for the downy goodness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston
If You are going to use UQ then TQ is the best option.
But if You are going to use pad - any kind of. Then using TQ will leave You with a sweaty back. There is no insulation material to keep your back ventilated when You sleep directly over pad. Of course you can use under ware for ventilation purposes.
I have moved back to the pad use due their simplicity. Hammock is more accessible when there is pad inside compared to hammock crushed with UQ around it. There is also use for pad during in camp or sitting in boat for example time and no use for UQ (Jack's are Better multi-use quilts make exception)
Synthetic bags are more sturdy than UL down bags (cheaper also) so it is easer to go in to the synthetic bag.
I my self use Wiggy's bags, and actually it is easier to go in and close the zipper than it is to go under Warbonnet Black mamba and make a knot to the cord around ones neck and then pull those elastic cords tighter to minimize draft around ones neck. But Wiggy's are different in construction than other bags, no draft collar and heavy duty 10 size zipper.
Trying to compare the pricing is kind of an apples to oranges comparison unless your looking at say Western or Feathered Friends. Don't get me wrong, there are some nice sleeping bags on the market made by the big companies but how and where they are made vs a cottage maker is a bit different.
I don't think the EN rating is the be all end all to temp comfort. At least it has tried standardizing the system some but everybody is different. Check out why Western Mountaineering has not used it.
I just find that a tq suites my sleeping style better whether I'm in a hammock or on the ground.
but as they say HYOH
I said at the start I would have some things wrong, please remember I'm asking because I don't know about TQ.
I like a TQ in a hammock but I think I would want a bag if I were on the terra-firma.
Shug
Your questions are very welcome here! You were right to ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwrider
Probably the majority of us tried to ease the change to hammocks by using our existing ground equipment. And why not? But, as the realization of hammock comfort set in, we lost our resolve to hold back in search of hammock nirvana. :)
Use what you have for now. It will work. Then slowly become a gear junkie like the rest of us. :)
Good thread!! I'm also in the "still using a bag for a topquilt" group as well.
A note on warranties.. I recall seeing a video on HF (think it was a watermonkey vid) where a tarp made by Stormcrow had a defect. Stormcrow and wife caught wind of this while WM was on the hike and drove like 6 hours to another state to meet him just off the trail to do an emergency repair in a parking lot. I don't ever see REI, NF, Marmot, Golite, Columbia, etc... doing this. These guys take great pride and make a living to support their families from this work... I honestly don't think you can ask for a better warranty than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwrider
Roger that, ask away! Your list of pros and cons were reasonable based on your searching as a Nooby, even if most of us will think some of your conclusions are not correct. Then we will let you know what we think is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAD777
Main thing is, there are not likely to be any warranty or quality issues with the vendors here. All top notch.
But # 1 and 2 in your list of advantages and #1 in your list of disadvantages are dead on ( IMO ) and cover most of what makes up the difference in TQs and sleeping bags, leaving out only "TQ more comfortable over all in a hammock". Unless of course you are cold due to a draft, then it won't matter much how much more comfortable and easy a TQ is to use.
The TQ does away with much of the bottom layer and all of the zippers of a sleeping bag. This saves you weight and volume compared to a bag of the same thickness. And if you use the TQ in a hammock, it will also be MUCH easier to get into and change positions under. IOW, it will be more comfortable.
But a sleeping bag "seals" up around your sides, and usually your head and neck are "sealed" off in a pretty bomb proof manner with hoods and neck collars. The odds of you having some kind of draft along the length of a TQ or around the neck and shoulders in much greater than if you are zipped up inside a bag, or similarly inside a Pea Pod. Which is just a big bag which encloses the entire hammock. Do you move a lot in your sleep, even in a hammock? Just think how easy it would be to kick open a fist sized "leak" some where along the edges of that TQ. It would be VERY easy, and instantly freezing in effect.
But I have learned to sleep and turn over in TQs, and I seldom have the leak/draft problems I used to have. And my TQs snap behind my neck and cinch up, so I don't get drafts there like I used to. So if your TQ is wide enough for you, and you can learn to keep it tucked around you through the night ( most of us do) and you have a separate hood, you can be just as warm as in a mummy bag or Pea Pod. And it will be easy to get in, and easier to move around in, than a mummy bag in a hammock. Plus, you will save that weight and bulk. That's a lot to love!
One other pro for the bag if used as a quilt: you won't save the weight and bulk like with a TQ. But then again you will have - when using as a quilt - a very wide TQ. A wider TQ is just easier to keep tucked around you. Plus, you can learn ( I have ) how to leave it unzipped down to the foot BUT closed by snaps or a 2 way zipper or Velcro at the neck. Then you can put your feet in the foot box and your head through the side and then through the neck opening into the hood and BAM you have a mummy hooded/neck collared TQ. It won't be lined up perfectly but still works. And as a last resort, when way colder than expected, you can just put a pad or pack on the ground. Put the bag's foot on the pad and step in, pull hood over head, zip up 3/4 of the way. Lay down and finish zipping up. You are now draft proof and have that great bag hood and collar insulating your head. As a last resort.
A separate hood added to a TQ, like the JRB currently on a huge sale ( http://www.jacksrbetter.com/shop/down-hood/ ), is a huge help. I have had a Marmot separate bag hood take me from a little cold to toasty warm, with no other changes. I have a JRB hood now but have not used it yet. It is much lighter than my Marmot hood, but still nice and thick.
So, I will be using the Hennessy SS as mentioned above, with the wrap around insulation, how much will I need to be concerned about keeping the quilt tucked in around my sides?
I toss and turn alot, what do I need to know about using one for the first time?
I'm thinking of a TQ like the JRB sniveller.
Where on this site is the list of manufactures that make TQ?
Where is the info on converting a sleeping bag to TQ? I have an old one I would like to try it on just for fun, I will only use the diy TQ for camping not backpacking (far to heavy)
Look under Hammock Gear - Manufacturers and ServicesQuote:
Originally Posted by bmwrider
HammockGear
JRB
Arrowhead
Te-Wa
Liegh-lo
Wilderness Logics
Underground Quilts
Use the "SEARCH" function to find that bag to UQ thread. You will find it handy.
Shug
One comment about the weight aspect that's been discussed:
I looked up weights for comparable Down UQ + TQ and SB + Pad combinations for a 20*F set up. Generally speaking the quilts weighed in around 20oz each, for a total of ~40oz. The Sleeping bag came in around 30oz, and a pad around 10oz for a total of ~40oz. So in the end, you're not really saving weight with a UQ + TQ. This was with a budget of about $4-500. I think the SB + Pad set up ended up being cheaper, but not by much.
In both cases, as you try to cut cost weight increases. That's the general trade off for cheaper/re-purposed gear, not a drawback of any one system.
Obviously a SB + UQ will weight more than a TQ + UQ, etc.. And TQ + pad would be the lightest, but has other disadvantages that turns people away.
my 2 cents... I recently took the plunge into my first TQ. Have been using the same synthetic bag for the last 20 years, it just weighs a tonne. I was worried about a fairly expensive cost and the durability of a down product. As others have mentioned in this thread, they cottage vendors on here all make fabulous products and take pride in what they make, so have no worries about the quality or the customer service. My new TQ is smaller, lighter, warmer and so much more comfortable than the old SB. It cinches up around the neck for added protection and the footbox helps entry /exit while in a hammock. well worth the investment in my mind. Good luck either way and happy hanging
Good thread.
When I ordered my WBBB hammock this summer, I bought a tarp for it, but postponed a Top Quilt due to cost and it being summer I didn't need it yet. I did get an UQ but haven't tried it yet because of the warm weather.
I am really looking forward to our Texas Hang next weekend, and it will be my first time using the hammock with temps at night forecast to be in the 50's -- good for a first run to see if I can configure it right without having any drafts. I ordered a TQ but don't know if it will come in before next weekend, so I may be needing to use a sleeping bag as a TQ, but at that temp I should be OK.
I grew up sleeping in a hammock quite a bit, but I grew up in the tropics so never worried about it getting cold at night. Seeing folks here hanging with snow on the ground amazes me :D and I do want to try to keep camping as the temps drop (I know, here in Texas we don't really have it COLD, but last January on a kayak-camping trip I was quite uncomfortably cold in a tent when it got cold enough there was ice in my kayak the next morning).
Since my UQ is a Yeti torso-length, I'm wondering if I need to also get a full-length one for camping when it is colder, but I'll see how the Yeti does first.
I've actually been curious about topquilts myself....I may be poking around at the hang next weekend to see if anyone will let me try them out for coverage...
See Shug's post #18Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwrider
There are threads on changing a sleeping bag into an Under Quilt. But to convert to a TQ, just leave it mostly unzipped, stick your feet into the foot section and pull it up to your neck. If you can snap close the neck area, then close it around your neck.Quote:
Where is the info on converting a sleeping bag to TQ? I have an old one I would like to try it on just for fun, I will only use the diy TQ for camping not backpacking (far to heavy)
All you need to look at are the advantages, because there no disadvantages to a top quilt. It's not a apple/orange comparison, it's a apple/turd comparison.
Couldn't you save a lot of weight by cutting off the zipper and resewing it though? Well maybe not a lot of weight, but a bit.
I think the biggest advantage is the ease of getting in and out, especially with a bottom entry Hennessy. I always have a tough time getting the material under me straight while wrestling with the zipper. When I switched to a side entry Blackbird, I realized that I needed to enter my hammock from the left, but that I had a right-zip sleeping bag. That is probably the worst combination. Since then I have tried a left zip bag and it is way easier. All of these concerns go away, however with a quilt. Just get in anyway you want and pull the quilt up like a blanket. Easy. You can try it by just unzipping your sleeping bag down to the last foot or so, and using your bag like a top quilt. I would have just kept doing that, but I had paranoia about the zipper tearing the hammock when it was trapped under me. A quilt has no zipper.
If you do go with a quilt, I recommend a sewn or snapped footbox. My velcro footbox rips apart too easily if I am trying to put my feet into it. Hope this helps.