Rant: LNT hammock camping and state parks don't mix

I just recently came home from an overnight camping trip at a state park. This post is going to be long and may ruffle some feathers, but I'll sum it up by saying that state parks and hammock campers are often at odds, which is sad because hammock campers and backpackers are often the ones who Leave No Trace. As a result, my wife and I have all but given up on state parks in favor of national parks.

The Story:
Yesterday my wife and I packed our rucks with some new gear and headed out to try camping in colder weather than we had ever attempted before. Coincidentally, I had just come across a bunch of multicam gear that I wanted to test out in addition to the new cold weather gear.

We found a local state park and headed out to set up camp. When we got there, we found that all of the primitive sites (enough room for 36 people) were grouped into one site as far as reservations were concerned, and that all of the campsites at that state park were filled. That sucks, but I guess it was our fault for not calling ahead and reserving a spot. So we found another state park not quite an hour away and headed over there instead. We were lucky that they had an 'RV/Tent' camping site available, so we took what we could get.

We of course need trees to set up our hammocks, so we found an open campsite and set up our hammocks just inside the treeline no more than 50 feet away from the campsite. This is where we start to have a problem. There are electrical hookups, water pumps, fire pits, grills, trash cans, picnic tables, and giant concrete slabs for RV, car, and tent campers. But the park rangers often take issue when we hang our hammocks from trees (even when using tree straps and LNT methods).

What really gets us though is that the parks put an incredible amount of effort into accommodating the hordes of people who make a huge mess of the area and generally show no respect for nature. Then we come and set up a campsite that people often can't even see from 50' away and without fail we have to explain ourselves every single time a park official actually does find us.

It just irritated us to see so many people leaving trash involving soda cans, charcoal, food scraps, red solo cups, broken beer bottles, plastic bags, snack wrappers, and even toilet paper. Even worse was the impression that they weren't as interested in the outdoors as much as hotdogs, beer, iPads, and climate control inside of vehicles. To me it looked more like everyone was tailgating, not camping. I even stepped on a broken beer bottle, which would have been a serious problem if I had been wearing sandals or no shoes at all like so many kids at these places.

My point here is that there is a very common and irresponsible type of 'camping' that is considered the norm, and that people who are truly out to enjoy nature (especially those using a hammock) don't seem to be welcome in our state parks.

As a result, we've deiced to lean more toward the national parks or state parks with good primitive sites instead of supporting the ones that encourage tailgating.

I've attached a few pictures below as an example of how we reduce the visual signature of our campsite. I've also attached a picture of some trash we found on the ground in the treeline about 10 feet away from where we hung our hammocks. We aren't the only ones who stray off the beaten path a bit, but at least you can't tell where we've been.

It sounds like the primitive sites are where you would be happiest, although that's no guarantee that you won't find trash, etc. Yes, during leaf peeping season in the fall (around here, anyway), reservations are recommended if not required... it is perfect camping weather.

That sucks on the trash. Here in MN our state parks are really clean...even car campgrounds. That's probably why they've jacked the prices here in the past couple years.

Its a sad truth that many campers and hikers would rather leave their trash for others to enjoy instead of packing it out.

I think it's typically evident that the masses are more concerned with tailgating as you say than enjoying nature. Expecting them to be the least bit concerned with LNT when they know that some park volunteer will come behind them to clean up their mess is a bit foolhardy. Nothing says "relax" like the game blaring on the TV or the stereo cranked so every campsite can enjoy your choice in music.

I'm not much of a fan of state parks, either. One night we woke up to some drunk in the next site taking a leak in his tent and his friends freaking out. I'd much rather be in the backcountry somewhere.

I feel your pain and second your new choices. I cannt stand camping in one of those packed to the gills state parks. It looks like a bunch of FEMA refugees or tailgaters, as you said. They are hacking on every tree and leaving a trail of trash everywhere they go.

Man I love that multicam. I can't wait to get my WBBB. is that a Multi cam quilt/bag? Where did you get it?

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Originally Posted by swankfly

I feel your pain and second your new choices. I cannt stand camping in one of those packed to the gills state parks. It looks like a bunch of FEMA refugees or tailgaters, as you said. They are hacking on every tree and leaving a trail of trash everywhere they go.

Man I love that multicam. I can't wait to get my WBBB. is that a Multi cam quilt/bag? Where did you get it?

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Yes, that's me in a multicam WBBB and a brand new multicam poncho liner from the local army store. I also found out that the brown fleece cap and neck gaiter from the same store are great for keeping your head and face warm on cold nights.

For the camping you're talking about, your best bet is to head into the woods instead of a campground. The campgrounds are hardly a nature experience, as you mention. We've seen the same thing you've described, but we still enjoy campgrounds sometimes. For a trip into nature however, grab a backpack and head out to find your own space.

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Originally Posted by JaxHiker

{...}I'd much rather be in the backcountry somewhere.

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Ditto!!!

I went last weekend to camp out at the local state forest and was awakened @ 4am by someone walking through out campsite and opening our cooler...
I was too far away and not positioned properly to see the cooler, but my wife was hanging right next to it, she didn't get out, but just shined her flashlight around and a few second later we heard a car driving off...
:eek:

I prefer places that have less people and take more effort to get to - the people out that far are more respectful of you and the land it seems

Only once have I actually gone to a designated campground. The rangers waited until nightfall to pull in and tell us we ended up a few feet away from the actual camp spot and told us to pack everything up in the dark and leave. That'll be the last time I ever go to an actual campground as well (except for group hangs of course.)

Sounds like you've found out when different type of recreators clash philosophically. I wouldn't rule out all state parks but I would stray from super developed campgrounds like you spent time in.

Never forget that like outside exists beyond parks. The forest Service and Bureau of Land Management have more land the the Park Service for the people. Lets use it!

No campgrounds for me! The more wilderness and the farther from the trailhead the better. State Forests, Wildlife Preserves, and mostly National Forests are my haunts. (Halloween is almost here you know).

Thanks for all of the support, but I have one concern perhaps you fellow hammock campers can help me to address. My wife and I went to the state park as a way to do a short overnight trip legally. We don't know enough about the legalities of wandering into the woods and setting up camp, so we went to an established campground.

So how do I know where I can camp and where I can't? I'm sure we can 'stealth camp' and probably get away with it, but we don't want to be somewhere we shouldn't.

Any advice on this would be appreciated, thanks.

I avoid managed campgrounds unless I have no other choice. National forests are the places to go.

S

I've always felt more safe when deep in the woods-------------the deeper the better!

You sir are preaching to the choir. I feel your pain and avoid State Parks whenever possible for the same reasons as you.

The State Parks around me are all great. My favorites have backcountry camping sites as well as the family sites, and are on the whole clean and pretty.

Given your scenario you have to admit that you were the "non conforming" user. ;-) As somebody who can pick anything from a Hammock to a Motor Home to go camping with I understand your rant. The problem is you don't fit the mindset of the folks running the show. They don't know what to do with you. Unfortunately the police mindset is to eliminate folks who do not conform.

As far as the rest of the denizens go none of us like the hog with loud music so more folks who are out a lot avoid the party weekends and leave that to the folks looking to party. My thought is that the better the park is for the average car camper the less you will like it. OTOH a lot of the folks at the campgrounds are big supporters of keeping the wilderness wild so you can enjoy it. It seems a reasonable price. I hope you can find some "good woods" to enjoy.

Here in west Tn there aren't many options other than state parks backyard camping. There is one that I do frequent quite often when working out of town at a sister company and have had nothing but great experiences there. The only exception was 3 weeks ago I had to work 2 weeks back to back there. The first week coincided with fall break and the "primitive" sites were all taken and I too had to set up in the RV section. I was really shaking my head at how they all had way too big fires, being (what I considered) loud, and just couldn't get it in my head why they would even want to do what they were doing.

Well, after running into some ex-inlaws and catching up with how they had been. They invited me to "dinner and a movie" (which to me means a hotdog and sitting around the fire). I told them I'd come over in a bit. They were setting up the sheets for the projector when I got there.:scared: I had no idea they were serious. They headed out the next day and over the rest of the week I observed the others coming and going. I came to realize that i was on their turf and even though they don't share the same "respect" (for lack of a better word) for the outdoors, they were at the least getting the family out and enjoying some family time away from home.

Best as I could tell, all the campsites were cleaned up and no one really got so loud that it was bothersome.

I tend to go to State Parks to camp in the off season (fall. winter, spring) when it is not as crowded.

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Originally Posted by snarlbuckle

It just irritated us to see so many people leaving trash involving soda cans, charcoal, food scraps, red solo cups, broken beer bottles, plastic bags, snack wrappers, and even toilet paper.

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Don't forget the poopy pampers. That is always a reminder, now matter how remote a campsite, that there's no place like "home". Blahhh.

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Originally Posted by snarlbuckle

I just recently came home from an overnight camping trip at a state park. This post is going to be long and may ruffle some feathers, but I'll sum it up by saying that state parks and hammock campers are often at odds, which is sad because hammock campers and backpackers are often the ones who Leave No Trace. As a result, my wife and I have all but given up on state parks in favor of national parks.

The Story:
Yesterday my wife and I packed our rucks with some new gear and headed out to try camping in colder weather than we had ever attempted before. Coincidentally, I had just come across a bunch of multicam gear that I wanted to test out in addition to the new cold weather gear.

We found a local state park and headed out to set up camp. When we got there, we found that all of the primitive sites (enough room for 36 people) were grouped into one site as far as reservations were concerned, and that all of the campsites at that state park were filled. That sucks, but I guess it was our fault for not calling ahead and reserving a spot. So we found another state park not quite an hour away and headed over there instead. We were lucky that they had an 'RV/Tent' camping site available, so we took what we could get.

We of course need trees to set up our hammocks, so we found an open campsite and set up our hammocks just inside the treeline no more than 50 feet away from the campsite. This is where we start to have a problem. There are electrical hookups, water pumps, fire pits, grills, trash cans, picnic tables, and giant concrete slabs for RV, car, and tent campers. But the park rangers often take issue when we hang our hammocks from trees (even when using tree straps and LNT methods).

What really gets us though is that the parks put an incredible amount of effort into accommodating the hordes of people who make a huge mess of the area and generally show no respect for nature. Then we come and set up a campsite that people often can't even see from 50' away and without fail we have to explain ourselves every single time a park official actually does find us.

It just irritated us to see so many people leaving trash involving soda cans, charcoal, food scraps, red solo cups, broken beer bottles, plastic bags, snack wrappers, and even toilet paper. Even worse was the impression that they weren't as interested in the outdoors as much as hotdogs, beer, iPads, and climate control inside of vehicles. To me it looked more like everyone was tailgating, not camping. I even stepped on a broken beer bottle, which would have been a serious problem if I had been wearing sandals or no shoes at all like so many kids at these places.

My point here is that there is a very common and irresponsible type of 'camping' that is considered the norm, and that people who are truly out to enjoy nature (especially those using a hammock) don't seem to be welcome in our state parks.

As a result, we've deiced to lean more toward the national parks or state parks with good primitive sites instead of supporting the ones that encourage tailgating.

I've attached a few pictures below as an example of how we reduce the visual signature of our campsite. I've also attached a picture of some trash we found on the ground in the treeline about 10 feet away from where we hung our hammocks. We aren't the only ones who stray off the beaten path a bit, but at least you can't tell where we've been.

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You make very good point. You should print this and send it to the superintendent of the park you were at and another copy to the director of state parks.

Gary, retired California state park superintendent.

Snarl, you mentioned that one of your remaining options was national parks, but I've experienced problems there as well. Here in California at Joshua Tree Nat'l Park they won't even let you hang a lightly-loaded clothesline from their precious trees. I know because a ranger politely but firmly told me to take mine down once. I decided not to test his patience by asking how I was supposed to dry my socks and underwear. :lol: He'd likely have had a fit if I tried to hang a hammock!

Oh and congrats on the WBBB multicam! I almost ordered one but opted for a slightly lighter 1.1 Double. I still think the multicam looks awesome.

Michael

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Originally Posted by snarlbuckle

So how do I know where I can camp and where I can't? I'm sure we can 'stealth camp' and probably get away with it, but we don't want to be somewhere we shouldn't.

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Stealth camping is the whole point of all that nice camo gear you have :cool:
Legal or not you are morally in the right by leaving no trace so just do it.

State parks are like camping in a trailer park, with the drunks, loud exhaust, screaming kids, amped music, generators running all night, and all the rest. It is NOT why I go to enjoy the wilderness!

That's why I like hammocks, because I can hang anywhere I can find two trees. If I don't want to go on a full-bore hike, I can go 1/2 mile up a trail, find a nice spot by a river or viewpoint and leave nothing but my footprints the next morning. If I do hike into a lake and find all the campsites taken, it is no big deal to go 200 yards up the hill and hand with a nice view of the lake and still have access for water and fishing.

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Originally Posted by ibgary

You make very good point. You should print this and send it to the superintendent of the park you were at and another copy to the director of state parks.

Gary, retired California state park superintendent.

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I was thinking the very same thing. The OP makes excellent points, it makes absolutely no sense to me to have a problem with some LNT hangers but RV's, TV's, beer bottles and trash are ok?? I don't get it. My wife says it's a sign of the times.

I prefer to go hang somewhere in the middle of the back country where I'm not disturbing anyone's idea of a good time nor are they disturbing mine. Maybe it's an age thing, I dunno, but knocking on 40's door I seem to care less and less for the loud party types, not to mention those that think the outdoors are their personal garbage dump.

Uncle Mike, Spaceweaseal, Caveman, and a few others knew that the following was sure to come:

You are going to be very, very dissapointed with the NFS if you want to camp in a National Forest between 15 September and 1 February. You will be restricted to camping with deer hunters in specially designated "Hunters Camps." If you think camping next to a retired couple in their RV is a dissapointment, try camping next to deer hunters out for a weekend with the boys.

Half of the decent trails in the state are shut down due to deadfall in the forest from last year's drought. The Forest Service has been slow to clear them, and has turned away the volunteers who stepped forward to help clear them. The maps of the closed areas at the trail heads are woefully out of date, and the boxes for registration forms at the trailhead to the Wilderness areas haven't been filled in months---and its against the rules to go into them without filling out a registration from. More than half of all the "Hunters Camps" are in the closed areas ($5,000 fine if you're caught in them), which only means more hunters in the camps that are open.

From what Ive heard from other hiker/campers in other states (except NH it seems where the AMC mostly runs the trail system), the Forest Service seems to be adopting rules and policies designed to keep people out of the woods.

We had a hike and hang planned for last weekend on the Lone Star Trail and ended up going to Fairfield State Park.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snarlbuckle

Thanks for all of the support, but I have one concern perhaps you fellow hammock campers can help me to address. My wife and I went to the state park as a way to do a short overnight trip legally. We don't know enough about the legalities of wandering into the woods and setting up camp, so we went to an established campground.

So how do I know where I can camp and where I can't? I'm sure we can 'stealth camp' and probably get away with it, but we don't want to be somewhere we shouldn't.

Any advice on this would be appreciated, thanks.

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I would look to see if there are any state/federal sponsored trails in the area that you can hike on, if you get in far enough nobody's gonna care...
National parks generally have trails that support "trail-side" camping. I'd look for these. Sometimes knowing folks who have land helps as well, cuz you can just go wander.
Cheers-

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Originally Posted by GrampaMikeOC

Snarl, you mentioned that one of your remaining options was national parks, but I've experienced problems there as well. Here in California at Joshua Tree Nat'l Park they won't even let you hang a lightly-loaded clothesline from their precious trees. I know because a ranger politely but firmly told me to take mine down once. I decided not to test his patience by asking how I was supposed to dry my socks and underwear. :lol: He'd likely have had a fit if I tried to hang a hammock!

Oh and congrats on the WBBB multicam! I almost ordered one but opted for a slightly lighter 1.1 Double. I still think the multicam looks awesome.

Michael

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I spent a lot of time in J Tree back when I was a climber. If you see that Ranger again you should thank him. Joshua trees are very soft and fall at the drop of a hat. Having a 10-20' high cactus fall on you might hurt.

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Originally Posted by WetRivrRat

I would look to see if there are any state/federal sponsored trails in the area that you can hike on, if you get in far enough nobody's gonna care...
National parks generally have trails that support "trail-side" camping. I'd look for these. Sometimes knowing folks who have land helps as well, cuz you can just go wander.
Cheers-

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Again;

Not in Texas between 15 September and 1 February. The Forest Service has closed trail side camping during the safest time, weatherwise, for camping in Texas.

You're better off in a State Park. You're welcome to camp in a State Park. Don't complain about it, because it not only CAN get worse, it DOES get worse.

I guess I've been lucky with my experiences hanging in northern MI and WI. I've been both in National Forest and MI state parks with very few other people around. So, I think I'll stay out in the middle of nowhere.

There's probably an app for that....any of it :rolleyes:

All that aside. We share this earth with all sorts. Some are great, some are not, and some are just so so. We started carrying a small trash bag with us last spring to gather trash we find....we're mostly in national parks (same problem just spread out more).

As for the state park personnel, they just haven't been educated yet and luckily members here have taken upon themselves to help educate those state parks that need a little help in that area....very diplomatically of course. We've come a long way with state parks in just over a year.

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Originally Posted by sargevining

Uncle Mike, Spaceweaseal, Caveman, and a few others knew that the following was sure to come:

You are going to be very, very dissapointed with the NFS if you want to camp in a National Forest between 15 September and 1 February. You will be restricted to camping with deer hunters in specially designated "Hunters Camps." If you think camping next to a retired couple in their RV is a dissapointment, try camping next to deer hunters out for a weekend with the boys.

Half of the decent trails in the state are shut down due to deadfall in the forest from last year's drought. The Forest Service has been slow to clear them, and has turned away the volunteers who stepped forward to help clear them. The maps of the closed areas at the trail heads are woefully out of date, and the boxes for registration forms at the trailhead to the Wilderness areas haven't been filled in months---and its against the rules to go into them without filling out a registration from. More than half of all the "Hunters Camps" are in the closed areas ($5,000 fine if you're caught in them), which only means more hunters in the camps that are open.

From what Ive heard from other hiker/campers in other states (except NH it seems where the AMC mostly runs the trail system), the Forest Service seems to be adopting rules and policies designed to keep people out of the woods.

We had a hike and hang planned for last weekend on the Lone Star Trail and ended up going to Fairfield State Park.

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That's a truly sad state of affairs, and one that really does warrant a few letters to high ranking NFS officials or whoever their bosses are.

Basically, Texas has no public lands to speak of with the exception of Big Bend, and the patchwork national forests in east texas (100acres NFS next to 50acres private next to 20 acres NFS next to 50 acres private) and a previous poster was correct, don't go during deer season. regulated hunters camps only. Think alcohol gunpowder and a desire to shoot anything that moves.

The Texas State Parks are just that, Parks. With far too many visitors and the needed rules to govern them. Some parks should be shut down for a few years just to have the ground recover from the trampling and compaction.

It really is very difficult to find a place in Texas where you are allowed to just walk around. You know just being there.

Any place that is even remotely considered public is often trashed because the population has so few places to go.

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Originally Posted by medinacaver

Basically, Texas has no public lands to speak of with the exception of Big Bend, and the patchwork national forests in east texas (100acres NFS next to 50acres private next to 20 acres NFS next to 50 acres private) and a previous poster was correct, don't go during deer season. regulated hunters camps only. Think alcohol gunpowder and a desire to shoot anything that moves.

The Texas State Parks are just that, Parks. With far too many visitors and the needed rules to govern them. Some parks should be shut down for a few years just to have the ground recover from the trampling and compaction.

It really is very difficult to find a place in Texas where you are allowed to just walk around. You know just being there.

Any place that is even remotely considered public is often trashed because the population has so few places to go.

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Things got worse this year. Heretofore, restricted camping was only during Gun Deer Season, roughly the first weekend in November or last weekend in October until late December or early January.

This year, as a "convenience" they have decided that it will henceforth be 15 September---two weeks after the opeing of Bow Season---until 1 February, which is the end of Black Powder Season and a month after the end of Gun Season.

I can understand the danger to people moving around in the woods as dawn breaks, or those downrange when a shot is fired and misses its target when high powered center fire rifles are being used, but such dangers simply do not exist during Bow and Black Powder seasons. And they apparently decided that bow hunters are able to identify thier targets between 1 September and the 15th, but there after they become lethally inept.

It makes no sense. The only people this rule is a "convenience" for is the minimum wage bureaucrat who's job it would be to check the same freakin g website I do ti find out when Gun Season opens who now doesn't have to do it because they've closed the trails down 6 weeks prior to the event.

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Originally Posted by snarlbuckle

We don't know enough about the legalities of wandering into the woods and setting up camp, so we went to an established campground.

So how do I know where I can camp and where I can't? I'm sure we can 'stealth camp' and probably get away with it, but we don't want to be somewhere we shouldn't.

Any advice on this would be appreciated, thanks.

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I have reconned over 30 of the Texas State Parks and actually camped in about 18 of them. Each is unique not only in geography but "house rules" and attitude.

Here's some quick thoughts...

"established campground" = rules. Each is a little different and I've not found a single one that would not allow hammocks. Some expect you to be only in the designated camp site, others allow more latitude as to where you hang. Very few look favorably on more than a few paces out of an improved site.

Some, even with primitive sites, require you to be in a designated campsite.

"So how do I know where I can camp and where I can't?" The best answer I can give is to ask. This is not one of those places where forgiveness is easier to get than permission. I've found that when I ask, and in the process explain the LNT techniques you mentioned, that I get a favorable response more often than not.

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Originally Posted by sargevining

You are going to be very, very dissapointed with the NFS if you want to camp in a National Forest between 15 September and 1 February. You will be restricted to camping with deer hunters in specially designated "Hunters Camps." If you think camping next to a retired couple in their RV is a dissapointment, try camping next to deer hunters out for a weekend with the boys.

We had a hike and hang planned for last weekend on the Lone Star Trail and ended up going to Fairfield State Park.

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Unfortunately, Sarge is right WRT the National Forest. When the trails are open, and deer season is over, they are great. You can hike. You can camp off trails and beyond campsites. But when the the woods are full of bullets and beer, the options are less appealing.

The reason we had such a good experience at Fairfield Lake and why we use that for our Texas Fall Hang is that several years of "good neighbors following the park rules" has developed a positive relationship between park officials and hammock hangers and we were able to camp much farther off the official campsite than many places allow.

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Originally Posted by snarlbuckle

What really gets us though is that the parks put an incredible amount of effort into accommodating the hordes of people who make a huge mess of the area and generally show no respect for nature.

As a result, we've deiced to lean more toward the national parks or state parks with good primitive sites instead of supporting the ones that encourage tailgating.

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I share your frustration about the hordes and mess. It is because of folks like those that we see rules limiting the flexibility we desire. The other reality though is it's those hordes that are funding the parks and in a state with very limited public lands, we have to make the best of the options we have available. That's why I try to be polite, follow rules, and educate as I go.

I've looked into the Wildlife Management Areas, and I guess I should make a post about them soon. I'm not sure of the status of camping during deer season, but I do know that camping is allowed in most of them---although there are no "official" campsites or developed trails.

At present, it seems to be the best alternative to trampled campsites and mismanaged Federal lands.

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Originally Posted by sargevining

Again;

Not in Texas between 15 September and 1 February. The Forest Service has closed trail side camping {...}

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I think you and I were posting at about the same time, so I didn't see this info. :rolleyes:

Seems it's a bit differnt rule where you're at - Where I'm originally from and where I'm currently at now they basically just tell you when you're out during hunting season to "keep your wits about you and wear bright clothing. Don't go running around past the treeline during the early morning hours"
- Especially with a piece of white fur pinned to your bum... (just sayin...) :lol:

Sucks to be in your shoes in TX it right now it seems...

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Originally Posted by sargevining

Again;

Not in Texas between 15 September and 1 February. The Forest Service has closed trail side camping during the safest time, weatherwise, for camping in Texas.

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This is sad news! Fortunately for me, I spend my time in either Florida or New Hampshire and there are no restrictions.

Of course everything from my shirt to my poncho is international orange.

Which is why I like Uwharrie National Forest here in NC.

Dispersed camping is allowed - also fires. The only difference during hunting season is that they ask hikers/campers to wear bright cloths.

There are some restrictions on just where you can camp - like not next to the parking lot or trail head - so for the most part you can wander in and pick your spot.

Chances are if you think its a good camp site somebody did also and you'll find a fire ring of stones right near where you would want to put one.

A bunch of the NC Hangers will be at Yates Place this coming weekend.

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Originally Posted by medinacaver

It really is very difficult to find a place in Texas where you are allowed to just walk around. You know just being there.

Any place that is even remotely considered public is often trashed because the population has so few places to go.

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Amazingly stupid on the part of Texas officials and government, considering how big the state of Texas is!!

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Originally Posted by snarlbuckle

... We don't know enough about the legalities of wandering into the woods and setting up camp, so we went to an established campground.

So how do I know where I can camp and where I can't? I'm sure we can 'stealth camp' and probably get away with it, but we don't want to be somewhere we shouldn't.

Any advice on this would be appreciated, thanks.

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Generally, camping is allowed almost anywhere in national forests and BLM lands as long as you or your vehicle are not blocking a trail, road or gate. There are a few exceptions, but, generally, just find a spot off a forest service road, park your vehicle on the shoulder or in a pull out and walk back into the woods a ways.

I hate campgrounds! It's the antithesis of why I go out into the woods. I seek solitude! Best of luck finding yours. :D

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Originally Posted by cfi on the fly

Amazingly stupid on the part of Texas officials and government, considering how big the state of Texas is!!

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Not so much stupid as different from other states. Just because Texas is big, doesn't mean land is open to the public.

It goes back to the original Republic of Texas prior to statehood. Land was not owned by the government but individuals. Unlike states that were territories that granted land to settlers. As a result, the land is owned privately except for very few areas.

Politics aside, it just simply is as it is and to make the most out of the options we have it takes educating officials, setting a positive example, and for off trail camping, cross the border... Arkansas, La, and OK are all just one day drives.

I go camping and hiking to get away from the obnoxious people, loud noise and trash. I would rather hike into the woods away from all of that. Campgrounds are just where all the loud obnoxious, trashy people travel to and do the same thing they do at home.
It is amazing how few folks will venture even just 100 yards into the wood. They want to be near facilities. So, just hike in a little ways and set up camp. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by BajaHanger

...Campgrounds are just where all the loud obnoxious, trashy people travel to and do the same thing they do at home. ...

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:lol::lol::lol::lol:!!! That is so true! Thanks for the laugh, BH! Now I have to clean the coffee spit-take off my laptop!

:lol: Sorry about that Pips, just thought I'd give you a laugh to start your week. :laugh:

Luckily, here in northern Ontario, most of the land is Crown land, which means we can use it anytime we want. There are Provincial parks and other campgrounds which are public, but why go there when I can go anywhere else that I want? I find campgrounds full of noise, children, generators, t.v.s, etc., and besides, they make you pay! The only places were are limited from is private property (obviously).
I can hike anywhere or throw my kayak in any lake and find a place miles away from everyone else. I don't want electricity or running water, flush toilets or cordoned off swimming areas when I camp...that's the whole point of camping!
That being said, some of the more heavily used areas are in poor shape from people being just plain pigs. I wrote a post earlier this year about one of them when I went to paddle there, garbage strewn about and just generally a mess. I was disgusted! As another poster has mentioned here, when I go to those places, I now pack a garbage bag and gloves, to clean it up when I see it. It doesn't teach the litterers any lesson, but it sure makes the place more inviting for the responsible people.

A friend and I recently had to camp at a campground due to bad weather on our 3 day hike.

Around midnight our neighbors decided to come in and proceed to make tons of noise, cook dinner, turn on and off there car, let their kids talk loudly, etc...

The next morning as we got up our neighbors were already up making noise, so I said to my friend in a semi loud voice, "Did the Clampetts wake you up to?". He laughed a little and we talked about how pissed we both were about it.

About 1/2hr later one of them came over and said how sorry they were for the noise the night before.

We packed up about an hour later and left.

You need to get over it. Early adopters always have to work around. Apparently you were not on the leading edge of the snowboard revolution. Not that I minded being kept to the backwoods myself at the time. It was a hard acceptance. Having someone ask questions to understand something new, is not strange. I just tell them up front, if they indicate unfamiliarity with hammocks, and explain the tree savers and what their concerns should be about someone who does not use them. Never had a problem yet.

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Originally Posted by NCPatrick

The State Parks around me are all great. My favorites have backcountry camping sites as well as the family sites, and are on the whole clean and pretty.

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NCPatrick: which state parks are your favorites? where have you hung at before? i would imagine you would pick some that would work for me since we are practically neighbors. :eek: