Need Some OES MacCat Advice...

Hey Folks,

So...I've been in limbo with OES tarps to try and get a MacCat Deluxe SpinnUL. Recently Brian from OES e-mailed me saying that the quality of the SpinnUL has not passed weatherproofing, which I guess has been going on for the past six months. What this means is that there will be no SpinnUL coming. My set up is a HH hyperlite with yeti UQ. I went for the deluxe because I liked the idea of the bigger tarp providing better protection, especially since I'm still fairly new at this hammocking stuff. Since I must get a silnylon tarp, I was thinking of going with the standard instead since the weight is the same as the SpinnUL deluxe. I was just wondering if the standard will be adequate. I will use this setup thru-hiking the AT SOBO this year. Do you think I'd have any issues with the standard?

Thanks!

Z

With good site selection and knowing were the wind is coming from you should have No issue with the size of the standard. I have slept in heavy wind and rain and was dry while my tent buddies were swimming in the puddles. When pitched down tight to my hammock it covers very well and When you don't need so much coverage you can open up the front in Porch mode to enjoy the views:)

Have you considered Cuben Fiber? Much lighter, packs smaller, more waterproof than sil. Check out Zpacks.

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Originally Posted by whayneneal

Have you considered Cuben Fiber? Much lighter, packs smaller, more waterproof than sil. Check out Zpacks.

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Brian makes a great tarp however with him being out of material I second Whayneneal, look into cuben from Joe at z-packs He will do any custom tarp you wish in pretty much any ridge line length. I have a custom tarp from Joe on the way and he was very easy to work with. I'm a big tarp fan so I hear what your saying. For the past year and a half I've used a winter tarp all year round and thoroughly enjoy the amount of coverage it offers.

Well this is sad news. I was just about to pull the trigger on a MacCat Standard; and I've heard nothing but great stuff about the SpinnUL, and some very specific complaints about the waterproofness of the Spinn fabric.

I guess this is a lost purchase to Brian and a gained purchase elsewhere :(

There is also the Edge tarp from Warbonnet. It's directly between the Maccat standard and deluxe in size. Or if you want to go big, you could get a Mamajamba. They're both offered in Spinn.

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Originally Posted by Dave41079

There is also the Edge tarp from Warbonnet. It's directly between the Maccat standard and deluxe in size. Or if you want to go big, you could get a Mamajamba. They're both offered in Spinn.

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If the Spinn that Brian has is not up to par why should I think the Spinn that anyone has right now is good? I don't want to spend $160+ on a tarp to only find out it's not waterproof as I was expected to believe.

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Originally Posted by backpackingZombie

If the Spinn that Brian has is not up to par why should I think the Spinn that anyone has right now is good? I don't want to spend $160+ on a tarp to only find out it's not waterproof as I was expected to believe.

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Because neither of those guys (or any of our cottage shops for that matter) are going to throw their reputation out the window just to move tarps. If Brandon is selling it, it is of good quality.

That said, I carried a Standard MacCat during the warm months on my AT adventure. It is plenty of tarp for a thru-hiker. I carried much bigger (SuperFly) early when the weather was misery, but I carried a Standard from mid-April down south to September up north. There were a handful of times that I wished I still had my large tarp, but they were few and far between and mostly just whining. :D

I agree with what Cannibal just said. I have an OES Deluxe in sil and a Standard in Spinn. Except for the dead of winter I've never thought that the Standard wasn't enough tarp, and even then I believe that the Standard would have handled the conditions if I'd let it.

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Originally Posted by backpackingZombie

If the Spinn that Brian has is not up to par why should I think the Spinn that anyone has right now is good? I don't want to spend $160+ on a tarp to only find out it's not waterproof as I was expected to believe.

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This is correct. I believe the SpinnUL comes from only one manufacturer. Sad news. Anyway, I think I'll go with the standard in sil. Cuben fiber looks amazing but it will break the bank. Thanks for the advice, guys.

Z

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Originally Posted by myles to go

With good site selection and knowing were the wind is coming from you should have No issue with the size of the standard.

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Well, except that the foliage and terrain often severely limit your site and orientation options, and the wind has a habit of changing direction and speed... ;)

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Originally Posted by bkrownd

Well, except that the foliage and terrain often severely limit your site and orientation options, and the wind has a habit of changing direction and speed... ;)

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Foliage and terrain are your friend when trying to hide from rain and wind.. ;)

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Originally Posted by backpackingZombie

If the Spinn that Brian has is not up to par why should I think the Spinn that anyone has right now is good? I don't want to spend $160+ on a tarp to only find out it's not waterproof as I was expected to believe.

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Did you ask if it was a batch problem or an overall material problem. It seems to me it would be a batch problem(lot, whatever you want to call it) since many, many people have Spinn tarps with no issues of leakage. Bad batches happen, it's part of manufacturing. I wouldn't assume just because one person got a bad lot of material that every person has bad material, but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Dave41079

Did you ask if it was a batch problem or an overall material problem. It seems to me it would be a batch problem(lot, whatever you want to call it) since many, many people have Spinn tarps with no issues of leakage. Bad batches happen, it's part of manufacturing. I wouldn't assume just because one person got a bad lot of material that every person has bad material, but that's just me.

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It's a batch problem...however it has been an issue for the past several batches I believe.

if your going to use this tarp a lot get sil because if you look at spinn wrong it will get a hole. The stuff is light and all but cuben blows it away(still pricey!). my OES deluxe is my go to tarp. It has been to hell and back, plus sil is easy to patch in the field. Here is a vid of the tarp in action right in North Carolina on the AT in a summer storm pitched high and still dry!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zQb1evgVUE

A standard maccat in Spinn is a great tarp and is all I have ever used, Never had a coverage issue.
Saying that I have a spinn 11x10 cat cut on order from Brian.

Not sure what to do, I ordered/paid Brian on 4th Jan. It's been one long wait I can tell you.
This waiting for the spinn fabric has nearly driven me to cuben.
I'll await a reply to a PM I sent Brian before making the call.

I've never had an issue with spinn fabric and it's been very durable. No holes in mine....

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Originally Posted by backpackingZombie

If the Spinn that Brian has is not up to par why should I think the Spinn that anyone has right now is good? I don't want to spend $160+ on a tarp to only find out it's not waterproof as I was expected to believe.

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I had the same call from Brian, and what he said was that this "Lot" meaning this individual order, the material failed his test! He puts every roll of fabric through a test prior to offering it up for sale as a completed tarp, he has contacted the company and is doing his best to work out the issue at hand! Also he just recieved this order of fabric and it came from a different supplier, as his normal supplier stopped selling it, he said that there have been issues with some of the fabric that he has gotten, which is one of the reasons for the delay in shipping of products! This is something that I am very glad that he does, this says that he "Cares" about not only his product, but also "You"!
Cannibal is right on all accounts but I will only voice my opinion on one, Brandon at Warbonnett would "NEVER" sell a product that cannot do what it is intended to do, instead of degrading another persons integritity please give them the benifit of the doubt, as he has been around much longer than you or I, and is a fantastic supplier of great products!
Sorry Mods but I feel this is going a little too far! If I have crossed the line I do appologise and feel free to delete this post, and or do what you may!

Just a quick note (I'm in the middle of juggling two exams, a project, a paper due in a week, graduate research, TA'ing for a lab class, normal OES orders and now the fabric issues :lol:):

As CB said, I'm currently trying to work with the manufacturer to try and get this fixed, but I'm not hopeful that the issue will be solved in the near term. I'm currently working on getting some hard and fast data to try to pinpoint the issues I've been having, but in a few days I'll be able to make a few announcements (positive ones I think the HF community will like).

I know that several of the other cuben manufacturers are still working on older stocks of fabric so in-stock products may be fine for use. Not trying to scare people, but do be advised that there may be some supply issues in the future. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I absolutely will not ship out a tarp out of fabric I feel is any way compromised or lacking in waterproofness, it's just not ethical and can lead to a dangerous situation.

More to come soon, including the new rig that I'm using for all of my research and fabric testing!

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Originally Posted by Brian

Just a quick note (I'm in the middle of juggling two exams, a project, a paper due in a week, graduate research, TA'ing for a lab class, normal OES orders and now the fabric issues :lol:):

As CB said, I'm currently trying to work with the manufacturer to try and get this fixed, but I'm not hopeful that the issue will be solved in the near term. I'm currently working on getting some hard and fast data to try to pinpoint the issues I've been having, but in a few days I'll be able to make a few announcements.

I know that several of the other cuben manufacturers are still working on older stocks of fabric so in-stock products may be fine for use. Not trying to scare people, but do be advised that there may be some supply issues in the future. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I absolutely will not ship out a tarp out of fabric I feel is any way compromised or lacking in waterproofness, it's just not ethical and can lead to a dangerous situation.

More to come soon, including the new rig that I'm using for all of my research and fabric testing!

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A prime example of what I love about this community and why I recommend the cottage guys whenever possible now. THIS is customer service...BEFORE a sale.

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Originally Posted by Cranky Bear

I had the same call from Brian, and what he said was that this "Lot" meaning this individual order, the material failed his test! He puts every roll of fabric through a test prior to offering it up for sale as a completed tarp...

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Thanks for the knowledge. I'm new to the HC life, so I am not sure of the rigors some go through for testing, hence my question. My worry was that the tarps were still made and sold, though with the caveat that they may not be perfect.

Thanks for the info.

And thanks for your info sharing as well Brian.

I hear a lot of great things on this forum, and other info-streams, of the quality that comes from a very small group of people. There is obviously a lot of love in the community

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Originally Posted by Brian

J
but in a few days I'll be able to make a few announcements (positive ones I think the HF community will like).

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Ohhhhh what the %^$& you know you can't do teasers like this, now I'm gonna be on the edge till you make the announcements!!!!

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Originally Posted by Brian

Just a quick note (I'm in the middle of juggling two exams, a project, a paper due in a week, graduate research, TA'ing for a lab class, normal OES orders and now the fabric issues :lol:):

As CB said, I'm currently trying to work with the manufacturer to try and get this fixed, but I'm not hopeful that the issue will be solved in the near term. I'm currently working on getting some hard and fast data to try to pinpoint the issues I've been having, but in a few days I'll be able to make a few announcements (positive ones I think the HF community will like).

I know that several of the other cuben manufacturers are still working on older stocks of fabric so in-stock products may be fine for use. Not trying to scare people, but do be advised that there may be some supply issues in the future. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I absolutely will not ship out a tarp out of fabric I feel is any way compromised or lacking in waterproofness, it's just not ethical and can lead to a dangerous situation.

More to come soon, including the new rig that I'm using for all of my research and fabric testing!

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Man oohh man I cant wait either. Now I have the theme song to 2001 ringing in my head in anticipation of the announcement.

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Originally Posted by tonejones

if your going to use this tarp a lot get sil because if you look at spinn wrong it will get a hole.

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Simply untrue.

I have a MacCat Standard in Spinn that I bought in 2008. I proceeded to carry it about 1,700 miles from that point along the AT. For the last three years, it's probably been deployed somewhere around 75-85 times...on trail. I've had branches (small) fall from a height of more than 20' and bounce off of it without leaving any evidence it happened. I have two HF Members as witnesses of the branch incident. It's been poked by branches more times than I could ever count; still no holes. :confused:

I agree than Cuben wins the battle for top tarp material. I have a few yards of it waiting to be made into a tarp that I'm quite excited about. Tougher and lighter than the other options for sure! But Spinn is a fine material for a tarp and plenty durable enough for the daily abuse a tarp takes.

I guess experiences vary on the spinn issue. I have had similar issues as tonejones in the past when it comes to spinn. One time a guy was walking by my tarp with firewood and twig that was sticking out caught my spinn tarp, and instant tear. My first outing with the tarp too! Main lessons learned: watch who you backpack with, and don't set up in the common areas.

Even with cuben, I am concerned that many folks here are going with the lightest available fabric, spending big bucks on them, and we are going to hear a rash of posts later about fabric failures. Cuben initially had a bad rap because of this that took a while to overcome.

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Originally Posted by drewboy

Even with cuben, I am concerned that many folks here are going with the lightest available fabric, spending big bucks on them, and we are going to hear a rash of posts later about fabric failures.

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That would make total sense. as the amount of money people spend goes up so does their chance to vocalize any complaints they may have.

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Originally Posted by drewboy

One time a guy was walking by my tarp with firewood and twig that was sticking out caught my spinn tarp, and instant tear. My first outing with the tarp too!

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That SUCKS!

I hope the person was decent enough to offer to replace it for you. My original SuperFly (sil) had the same thing happen to it. I was really mad at the time, but I smile every time I see the scar on that tarp now. Even tarps should have a little character. :D

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Originally Posted by Cannibal

... I smile every time I see the scar on that tarp now. Even tarps should have a little character. :D

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Good for you. That's my attitude too. Why go into the woods at all, if you don't expect a little dirt, a few scrapes, bruises, rips, and scars?! Be proud of 'em.

Rain Man

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Originally Posted by backpackingZombie

as the amount of money people spend goes up so does their chance to vocalize any complaints they may have.

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This is completely untrue!

Everyone is allowed to voice their concerns/complaints, but there is a total difference in doing it respectfully, and doing it maliciously! But talking it out with the manufacturer via email or PM should always be done first instead of calling them out on a public forum, as every cottage manufacturer here is more than willing to do what they can to make things right, and the beauty of Hammock Forums is those cottage manufacturers are right here with us posting away!

sorry if i came off as snippy or disrespectful there. I wasn't speaking about this forum, or forums in general, or camping in general, i was just saying that as money spent increases people tend to get more mad if something breaks, whether it's their own fault or not.

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Originally Posted by backpackingZombie

i wasn't speaking about this forum, or forums in general, or camping in general, i was just saying that as money spent increases people tend to get more mad if something breaks, whether it's their own fault or not.

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I tend to agree. I won't speak up if the matter is over a small amount but high end items warrant certain expectations and if they are not met, then I'll probably be more vocal about. Of course there is a way to do things but in general I agree with this statement.

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Originally Posted by backpackingZombie

If the Spinn that Brian has is not up to par why should I think the Spinn that anyone has right now is good? I don't want to spend $160+ on a tarp to only find out it's not waterproof as I was expected to believe.

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the spinn i'm using was purchased months ago and does not have this problem. I (like brian) check the fabric before hand to make sure it's suitable. not certain at this point what i'm going to do when the current stock of spinn is gone.