Tarp tie-outs

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02-24-2008, 17:22
Schneiderlein

Tarp tie-outs

I want to do something about my tarp tie-outs. The taut line hitch I am currently using is just too inconvenient.

On the Lunar Solo by Six Moon Designs (which is a really nice tarp tent, btw, as far as ground accomodations go), Ron Moak is using 1/2" grosgrain tie-outs with a ladder lock attached to the tent. I found this incredible convenient to use and was wondering how well it would work for a tarp.

I was thinking about attaching the plastic ladder lock buckles under the eight side tie-outs on my tarp, and putting a 16" length of grosgrain ribbon with a loop sewn in the end on each one. I could either put a stake directly through this loop, or attach any length of rope I need in case I want to pitch further off the ground. The 16" grosgrain should provide plenty of adjustment for tightening the tarp, and would probably not add significantly more weight than a line tightener gizmo. Plus, it would also solve the issues I have had with my lines tangling.

Has anybody done this? Any thoughts on whether this will work well for a tarp?
02-24-2008, 20:58
slowhike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneiderlein

I want to do something about my tarp tie-outs. The taut line hitch I am currently using is just too inconvenient.

On the Lunar Solo by Six Moon Designs (which is a really nice tarp tent, btw, as far as ground accomodations go), Ron Moak is using 1/2" grosgrain tie-outs with a ladder lock attached to the tent. I found this incredible convenient to use and was wondering how well it would work for a tarp.

I was thinking about attaching the plastic ladder lock buckles under the eight side tie-outs on my tarp, and putting a 16" length of grosgrain ribbon with a loop sewn in the end on each one. I could either put a stake directly through this loop, or attach any length of rope I need in case I want to pitch further off the ground. The 16" grosgrain should provide plenty of adjustment for tightening the tarp, and would probably not add significantly more weight than a line tightener gizmo. Plus, it would also solve the issues I have had with my lines tangling.

Has anybody done this? Any thoughts on whether this will work well for a tarp?

it does sound interesting. ladderlocks are a very convenient way to tighten & loosen.
judging by the force ive used tightening straps down that held sleeping bags & other stuff to the top or bottom of my pack, i'd guess it would hold in windy conditions, but i'm wondering if the grosgrain would hold as well as the webbing? scientific test anyone???
02-24-2008, 21:17
hangnout

http://www.questoutfitters.com/tent_poles.htm

Look at the bottom of this page and you will find the line locs that work with cord instead of ribbon.
02-24-2008, 21:18
warbonnetguy

i've found some 1/2" hardware like that to be much more suited to heavier stuff like 1/2" flat weave nylon, where 1/2" ggr tends to not be as secure, obviously some hardware is compatible with the ggr if 6 moon uses it.
02-24-2008, 21:43
Youngblood

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowhike

it does sound interesting. ladderlocks are a very convenient way to tighten & loosen.
judging by the force ive used tightening straps down that held sleeping bags & other stuff to the top or bottom of my pack, i'd guess it would hold in windy conditions, but i'm wondering if the grosgrain would hold as well as the webbing? scientific test anyone???

If ladderlocks are what I think they are, I have them on a Stephenson's tent that hold a lot of tension and I think Granite Gear has a tarp that has something like that on them. But I have used shockcord for a number of years to help keep my tarps reasonably taut overnight and have had good results with that approach. I usually can just set it up and forget it... usually, but sometimes that nylon stuff can stretch and stretch and stretch when it gets wet under tension.
02-24-2008, 22:06
slowhike

that's a good point about the nylon stretching.
02-25-2008, 09:45
Schneiderlein

I weighed some 1/2" grosgrain and ladderlocks last night. The buckles are just under 1g each, and the grosgrain is just under 1g/ft. For eight tie-outs, the whole setup would come in well under 1oz.

slowhike, what should I scientifically test for? I can put together a tie-out and pull on it in an MTS test frame. I can record force vs. elongation and failure load. What load rating do you need for a tarp?

My non-scientific test last night consisted of simply pulling on it by hand. It seemed plenty strong.
02-25-2008, 09:58
Schneiderlein

Quote:

Originally Posted by HANGnOUT

http://www.questoutfitters.com/tent_poles.htm

Look at the bottom of this page and you will find the line locs that work with cord instead of ribbon.

Have you tried those? Do they work well? What kind of rope did you use?

I still like the grosgrain for reducing/eliminating tangles, but I might give those a try.
02-25-2008, 11:40
pisgahfan

I use the MSR cord tensioners and reflective guy line on my set up. Makes setting up a breeze and you can tension the lines quickly if the weather turns while stargazing.

http://www.amazon.com/MSR-Cord-Tensi.../dp/B000PWBD1S
02-25-2008, 22:08
slowhike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneiderlein

I
slowhike, what should I scientifically test for? I can put together a tie-out and pull on it in an MTS test frame. I can record force vs. elongation and failure load. What load rating do you need for a tarp?

My non-scientific test last night consisted of simply pulling on it by hand. It seemed plenty strong.

what i was wondering about was if the thin grosgrain would hold as well as the webbing.
but more importantly, would the grosgrain slip or the buckle fail in hard wind gusts.
but then judging the force of wind gusts one might encounter would be a real guessing game???
02-25-2008, 22:16
hangnout

Quote:

Have you tried those? Do they work well? What kind of rope did you use?

No, I have not used them but I am going to put them on my next tarp. They are starting to show up on more tents and tarps.

These were discussed before in the link below

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...hlight=lineloc
02-25-2008, 22:40
warbonnetguy

those look very interesting, but who is gonna use 3mm guyline? will it work with normal sized guyline? has anyone used these? i'll check the other link.
02-25-2008, 22:49
hangnout

MLD is using these on their new tarps and shelters. If you go to their site and look at some of the pics you will see them on the tarps.

Henry Shire TarpTents uses them with Kelty Triptease line
02-25-2008, 22:53
warbonnetguy

i guess i'll just call quest tomorrow and order some to experiment with.
03-18-2008, 20:01
Schneiderlein

1 Attachment(s)

I have experimented a bit with the ladder locks and 1/2" grosgrain ribbon for tie-outs. Inspired by the Prusik knot on my cinch buckles (that I made according to Blackbishop's instructions) I thought I could kill two birds with one stone and get an integrated tarp tensioner while not having to sew on the ladder lock buckles. So, I took a short loop of 3/32" shock cord, attached the ladder lock with a Prusik, and likewise attached the whole thing to the tarp tie-out. I hope the picture illustrates what I'm talking about.

I was pretty proud of myself for the great idea until I tested it. The 3/32" shock cord is clearly too thin. I have to stretch it all the way to its limit to get enough tension on the tarp, and I am more than a bit concerned about the shock cord failing under the load. Otherwise, this method works really well and the grosgrain seems to hold fine in the ladder lock buckle. Unfortunately, all I have left is 3/32" and 1/4" shock cord, the former being too thin and the latter way too big. I will be ordering some 1/8" and 3/16" shock cord to experiment with.

In the meantime, I was wondering if anybody who uses shock cord on their guylines has any recommendations for what size to use, and how long a length of cord is required.
03-18-2008, 20:13
TiredFeet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneiderlein

I have experimented a bit with the ladder locks and 1/2" grosgrain ribbon for tie-outs. Inspired by the Prusik knot on my cinch buckles (that I made according to Blackbishop's instructions) I thought I could kill two birds with one stone and get an integrated tarp tensioner while not having to sew on the ladder lock buckles. So, I took a short loop of 3/32" shock cord, attached the ladder lock with a Prusik, and likewise attached the whole thing to the tarp tie-out. I hope the picture illustrates what I'm talking about.

I was pretty proud of myself for the great idea until I tested it. The 3/32" shock cord is clearly too thin. I have to stretch it all the way to its limit to get enough tension on the tarp, and I am more than a bit concerned about the shock cord failing under the load. Otherwise, this method works really well and the grosgrain seems to hold fine in the ladder lock buckle. Unfortunately, all I have left is 3/32" and 1/4" shock cord, the former being too thin and the latter way too big. I will be ordering some 1/8" and 3/16" shock cord to experiment with.

In the meantime, I was wondering if anybody who uses shock cord on their guylines has any recommendations for what size to use, and how long a length of cord is required.

1/8" has been working just fine for me for quite a few years. As for length, I just eyeball what looks appropriate and make a loop.
03-18-2008, 20:18
Schneiderlein

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiredFeet

1/8" has been working just fine for me for quite a few years. As for length, I just eyeball what looks appropriate and make a loop.

Do I understand correctly that you are using two strands of 1/8" shock cord in parallel? I think 1/8" will work great with a Prusik on the ladder locks, not so sure about 3/16".