Pardon the video - I wanted to play with some editing but had no luck with the software I used... The content is there and I intended to add audio over the top but it never happened. I think its pretty self explanatory though :)
Enjoy!!
XeX
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Pardon the video - I wanted to play with some editing but had no luck with the software I used... The content is there and I intended to add audio over the top but it never happened. I think its pretty self explanatory though :)
Enjoy!!
XeX
Youtube is being slow for me tonight, but I was wondering if something like this would work. Can't wait for it to load so I can see if there were any issues :)
They look very expensive, and very cool.
Yeah. That's nifty. Any chance you can get a close-up of the rig? Maybe a few pictures? It's very cool.
Did you really use bronze oarlocks on top of the aluminum poles? :confused:
How hard is it to get those anchors out of the ground when you are ready to move on?
That's very cool and it looks rock solid judging by the opening scene. This might be a good time to remind folks that by law you are supposed to call One Call or whatever it's called in your state before you dig or drive anything into the ground. In most state parks, electric utilities are underground and I would hate to think what would happen if you drove this into a water line!
What are the oar locks for?? Why not just clove, or better yet, constrictor hitch the suspension lines to the uprights?
Thanks for the video. It's nice to see how other people are doing things.
I believe I picked them up from here:Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleandy
http://www.minntrapprod.com/catalog/...th=509_293_503
Look around - I've seen them for cheaper.
Remember to get the finned version as these have a retrieval boss on them (you need to setup a retrieval cable or rope on them though - I am using Dynema and you CAN NOT tie it on as it breaks at the knot - you gotta do a bury to make loops and then make the loop slip by putting it through the rest of the line. I also armor it using a piece of paracord sheeting around the loop itself.
I would have explained all this in the video but the editing was a total waste of time / nightmare as you can see... I will try to remake the video once I find editing software that is worth while.
-Xex
EDIT:
The driver is just a piece of rebar I cut to length and machined on the lathe so the end fit well. You could use any steel bar. I'd like to try it with Titanium since the steel is very heavy.
The anchors weigh < 150 grams each (I think 147 when I weighed them). I'd love to find them in cast Titanium as well!
-X
I use a single bronze oarlock on top of one of the poles.Quote:
Originally Posted by MacEntyre
The poles are just PVC schedule 40 - way strong enough for my weight (YMMV)
The one pipe has the end melted with a torch and pushed over so it is smooth (foot end) so it doesn't cut into the suspension.
The Oar-Lock end is belts-and-suspenders so I can sway without having my head-end fall off. It would likely be fine without it and just melted / bent over... Another option would be to use a T fitting and run the suspension through that but it could fail - not sure.
The anchors have a removal boss on them which I strung with Dyneema (no knots! - splices only or it breaks every time - cable would even be better)Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT Rock
Generally, they come out without a problem. Sometimes they get hung up in very packed soil (especially if I pound them in too deep) or if they hit roots or rocks on the way up.
One trick I learned is to pour some water into the hole and let it sit for a while if they give me a hard time - this helps a lot in the packed soil scenario.
Really just knowing how deep to put them (and no deeper) helps a lot based on soil type. Looser soil = deeper
I dunno if the scene with me bounding up and down on it made it in - it was supposed to but the edit list came out all crazy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jim Mac
They are plenty strong for me, in this setup and soil type. YMMV
Re: Underground electric etc - oh yea- thank you!!
I thought about using knots and it would probably work fine - but I had the oar lock and said "why not".Quote:
Originally Posted by miisterwright
My thought process was (in this order)
Need to prevent line from falling off poll - especially on the head end
Easy and available
Force line will be center with the pole (less stress on support)
Oar lock can not slide down a poll
There are a lot of solutions that will work. This was mine at the time :)
Judging by the length of re-rob and angle of installation I don't think the anchors are more that 12-16" vertically below grade. In most location electric/gas are required to be installed min 30", that's not to say they are all installed at the depth but in general they are...Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jim Mac
It would be a realy mess though if you hit a waterline... At least you could take a shower :lol::lol::lol:
Very cool setup BTW.... Looks like 4 anchors, 2 rachet tiedown straps, 2-2" PVC sch 40, 1 oar lock, rerod driver, BigHammer, and ridgeline.... Is that correct, missing anything, would be a great thing to carry in back of car for setting up where no trees.... Some places I've camped at are treeless like middle of Moab Desert... :cool:
This got me thinking as I was mowing my lawn a little big ago - what if you took a larger stake and simply put an eye near the tip to push into the ground and leave the stake in place? If you put the stake in at an angle against the pull off the line wouldn't it have a similar effect? Maybe I need to go try that.Quote:
Originally Posted by XexorZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr1355
You got it!
ReRod is ~20" long. Titanium would help.
4 anchors are ~150 grams each. Switching out steel cable would help. If these could be re-made in titanium that would help too. I was thinking about removing the fins as well - they help but are not needed if you go deep enough / soil is not super loose.
You CAN get away with 3 anchors but it makes for a PITA setup... I've done it with TWO anchors and a wide base on one side.
Ratchet straps could be easily replaced with another kind of cordage but keep the wear point in mind (mainly the connection to the steel cable). Tie slip knot in center of strap to secure suspension to - this makes it easy to remove the knot later and more importantly stops the entire rig from tipping over left/right.
Anchors are 18" long but I put them in on ~30-45 degree angle off vertical and only as deep as I "feel" they need to go depending on soil conditions. These are only ~12" deep linearly, so likely ~8" deep below grade.
PVC could be substituted w/ bamboo or very stout non-collapsible hiking polls (or a very light hammocker!)
Oar lock can be skipped if you don't hop around a lot. This just keeps the head end from falling off. I was swinging in this thing quite a bit with no problems.
Big hammer could be the end of a hatchet if you carry this sort of thing. Big rocks work, too.
Note: This is not really super low impact... but it works.
Worst cases:
Poor installation / setup or anchor comes loose (Fall on ground!)
Can't get penetration into the earth (Sleep on ground -nooo)
Can't recover anchor / recovery line breaks (lose anchor or dig it up)
Been there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT Rock
In my experience the stake gets pulled straight out the hole it went in.
What happened in my test was the earth acted like a pully / guide for the line and just hoisted the stake straight out. If you made a second groove in the earth down to the line it could work though - changes the angle the rope exists the stake/earth
LOL, I didn't read this before I went out and tried. I got the same result.Quote:
Originally Posted by XexorZ
I noticed your removable ones have that extra line, is it on the nose or the back of the anchors?
anybody tried these in poor soil (loose, rocky, etc)?
I'm thinking of going to Target and getting some to play with: http://www.target.com/6-pc-Ground-An..._gwvub_2_title
I'm wondering if one could make a driver out of a carbon rod and also use it for the support on a one tree rig...:unsure:
Loose: Not yet I want to try them on the beach soon though :D. I imagine you just need to drive it deeper in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by warbonnetguy
Rocky - YES. Can be a really big problem if you have high density of rocks or roots. If you manage to get it past all the rocks you can easily get it stuck behind them and need to dig it out. If you know you're going into rough soil like this, don't put it in so deep... and just give it a really good pull to see if it is gonna come out under your load. Also, don't hang so high (help prevent injury if you do go down).
This is a reallly expensive set of kit - i think I paid a lot less for a dozzen of the ones I used - and that was shipped!Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT Rock
Also (IMPORTANT!!) I don't think the ones from target have the removal "boss" which is NEEDED to pull these out. Once they are in you can't get them out otherwise (without digging) or a serious lever to apply the ~1000LB of force needed.
Re: Carbon rod
I really dunno if this will work - it would have to be a seriously thick carbon fiber rod due to the compressive nature of the loading. Fiber does great in tension and so-so in compression along the axis in my experience. Who knows though - you may be onto something awesome!! Please let us know if you try it (and be careful - CF splinters hurt!)
Its on the back of the anchor (would get wrecked during insertion if on the head end). Mine came with the hole for it but not the line - I used Dyneema which is JUST strong enough in the diameter I used... Also - I did NOT tie any knots in it cause that would make it WAYYY too weak - I spliced them on and "armored" the loop with paracord sheething (removed core from paracord, melted ends a bit, fed it over end and made loop)Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT Rock
Lucky for me our Target didn't have them. What size Duckbill anchors are you using? Small?
I'm also thinking that one could possibly use dynaglide whoopie slings between the vertical supports and the anchor lines. A couple of 4.5' WS would only be about 14 grams.
These are actually "Finned Superstakes" - not the duck-bills.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT Rock
Do duck bills come with a removal boss? If so they could work. If not you would need to figure out how to get them out of the ground.
-Xex
I found the Fox Hollow Super Stakes with fins and bosses. I see what you are talking about.
Is the boss a must? Could you just drill a hole through the back of a regular hollow stake and attach a line to that? Or is there some sort of mechanical advantage to the boss?
Dynaglide does work - you just gotta make sure you armor it with a sheath of nylon or similar material in order to protect it from the abrasion it WILL suffer during insertion, removal and use. I used paracord sheeting on the dyneema removal cord. DO NOT use knots - they weaken the stuff WAYYY too much - you really MUST splice a loop into the endsQuote:
Originally Posted by SGT Rock
What I was thinking on this was keeping the cable connection to the head and connecting the WS to the cable.Quote:
Originally Posted by XexorZ
How tall are your PVC pipes? I'm thinking of constructing a rig for the Gathering.
Only about 4ft high. They only really need to be as high as your hammock ends are so could actually be lower - the trick is in the tensional. You still need to keep the angle at ~30deg so the poles should be as close to the hammock as is reasonable. Adjust suspension until the hammocks ridge-line is proper.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT Rock
I put together this video to show how I rig up the Dyneema and Paracord sheeting "armor"
I'll try to make a video detailing how I build up the dyneema lines sometime tomorrow if I find time.
Sorry about the lack of editing - still need to find a decent editor.
You could always use a small rope thimble at the rope/anchor connection.Quote:
Originally Posted by XexorZ
Thanks for that. I just ordered a dozen of those.
I'm looking at titanium bar as well. Looking at the driver it looks like the end that goes into the hollow of the ground anchors may be <0.5" (they have a 9/16" rebar turned down on one end). I've done the beer math and it looks like I could get a 48" ti bar at .437" that should weigh about 472gr if I remember my geometry right. If that bar could serve as one support and the driver it would be dual function. I wish I had an engineering degree sometimes LOL.
So if that is true, lets say 472 gr for the bar, 100 grams for two anchors and retrieval cords made from dynaglide or something, a couple of dynaglide whoopie slings at 6' for about 18 grams, and throw in about 10 grams for fudge factor and it is conceivable that you could make one side of this that only weighed about 21 ounces per side. Add some sort of handle to the ti rods and they could also be hiking poles.
Thanks Opie - this is a great idea to protect the rope from the metal.Quote:
Originally Posted by opie
My only fear is that it wouldn't protect the rope from the ground itself as the device is hammered into it. Any thoughts on this?
BTW thanks much for all the cool posts on splicing - using the "bent-over-wire" trick now and it is sooo much easier.
48 inches is reallly overkill for the driver. 24 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT Rock
At that length you could potentially use the driver as one of the ground stakes - I've held myself on this same rig using rebar of that length (as a spike/stake). It gets expensive if the TI bends though :scared:
Woops, made a huge math error LOL. it would be much heavier than that.
Look into Bamboo (for the vertical supports)- it would work and could possibly be used as walking staffs. The diameter may been to be too large though - not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT Rock
Hmmm.... Barring any actual experience using ground anchors for hammocks (I have used them for staking large trees)...Quote:
Originally Posted by XexorZ
DG fits nicely into a 1/16 rope thimble and the thimble itself isnt that big. Although... Its likely a solution to a problem that doesnt exist. There would more than likely be an issue getting the thimble on the anchor, now that I think about it.
So forget I mentioned it!!
I was thinking of using some small diameter flex-copper tubing (like HVAC stuff) and flanging the ends once it was through the anchor. Could then bend the copper pretty easily into the shape of a thimble and it would protect both the rope from the anchor and the rope from the ground itself...Quote:
Originally Posted by opie
I'm sure there are a bunch of problems that this would create that I'd surely find out about at the worst possible time.
I'm looking at the PVC he is using and it looks like that would weigh ~2.72 pounds per pole. Good for car camping for now. I've seen a picture of someone using ski poles - one on each end. I may need to find some used ones to play with.
I think copper is soft enough it would kink at the connection point.Quote:
Originally Posted by XexorZ
All in all IMO youve got the best idea already in use. Unless you want to replace the para sheath with some kevlar.
EDIT: You could also try a stopper knot... I know you said the knots fail, but perhaps a stopper in the end of the line.....
You mean like simply running the end through the eye and then tying a multi turn overhand knot to keep it from pulling through?
Re: Kevlar - already tried it actually - I had no way to prevent the ends from fraying (at least I'm not aware of one).
With the nylon paracord sheeth I am able to melt the ends - the Kevlar doesn't melt and turns to ash when it finally gets hot enough to change at all.
The kevlar would be superior for abrasion though if there was a way to stop it from fraying. Can't tie is cause its a hollow rope being used as a sheeth - anybody have an idea how to get around this?
Re: Stopper knot - I'm not 100% sure but I'm very confident this would fail post haste unless there is a knot I'm not aware of that is stronger than a eye loop bury (whatever that is called lol)
Could you smear the ends with some 2 part epoxy to prevent the fraying ?Quote:
Originally Posted by XexorZ
very cool idea - I'm gonna look into doing this. Gotta find a way to keep the epoxy off the main line though - maybe using a plastic tube of some sort under the kevlar layer.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone
Two thumbs up :thumbup:
Looked into a titanium rod for the driver. 3/4" rod at 16" long would cost about $28.740 plus shipping - but I would have to buy 3 so it would be about $35 per rod if someone wanted to get together for a group buy. They should weigh about ~4.58 ounces (~129 grams). I have some more feelers out on other options trying to save money.
I'm thinking of looking at some used ski poles for the vertical supports so they could be dual use for hiking if you needed to have some - like desert hiking. I looked at Titanium tubing and it is expensive, and it looks like it would be heavier than ski poles.
16 inches doesn't really sound long enough - but it might be.
For a while I was using aluminum tubing with a machined steel end caps (made them on the lathe - easy) This worked pretty well but eventually deformed (aluminum after all).
Perhaps we could try to locate thick-walled structural titanium tubing and put a carbon steel end caps / plugs in it to prevent strike damage from the hammer / anchor?
This would be significantly lighter and likely strong enough for the task.
Anchors can go up to 18" deep so we may want to consider using rods of 20+ inches in length. Could double as a spreader bar on bridge hammocks....
I gotta take a caliper to the end of the rod I made so you know what the size is - I didn't measure when I made it, I just cut.