UQ with waterproof bottom?

I was wondering if there's anyone making UQs with at least a section on the underside nearest to the ground of waterproof cloth? I noticed this summer that in some circumstances when I was "forced" to hang particularly low (e.g. in shelters and such), the uq would touch the ground. Where I'm from, you always have to be prepared for wet conditions, so I thought it would be useful to have maybe the middle section of the fabric which is closest to the ground when you're in the hammock waterproof.

Certainly you could just strap a piece of waterproof fabric underneath, but it would require extra stuff to carry, and extra set-up. If there's an uq with it "integrated", it would suit my purposes a whole lot better.

If it's just a section, there shouldn't be too many problems with condensation, am I right? And keeping it to a section rather than the whole thing, there should also not be much of a weight penalty. Am I missing something else?

Only a matter of time before some cottage offers an UQ with a bottom out of waterproof/breathable cuben. Currently though the w/b cuben is not offerend in the stealthiest colors or even colors that really blend unless you are in the arctic or a fog bank. That will change in time also. When cuben first hit the market it was a bland white/grey color; now it comes in various shades of green depending on yardage weight.
At leas for now it would be good to see an UQ outfitted with a bottom in Pertex.
After writing that I reflected on the times when my underquilt got weight, and I mean soaking wet. I can't remember even one time, though on Mt. Albert in horizonatal rain and only under the original Hennessey tarp (minimal coverage) the bottom did get damp on the outside.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MedicineMan

After writing that I reflected on the times when my underquilt got weight, and I mean soaking wet. I can't remember even one time, though on Mt. Albert in horizonatal rain and only under the original Hennessey tarp (minimal coverage) the bottom did get damp on the outside.

---

This summer I strapped my hammock up for a short nap overnight in Southern Sweden, as I was too tired to keep on riding and I had many hours of autobahn ahead of me. It had been raining pretty hard just before I arrived where I took a break, and as the sun rose at 3-4 am, the fog, which was the morning dew more or less, just reinforced, was just unbelievable. There was no protecting yourself from it. That's when I really wished the outer fabric would have been waterproof..

This is quite common where I hang the most even on mornings when it hasn't rained the night before (the morning mist is quite enchanting actually, but usually not quite as strong), and particularly the bottom of the uq got wet, as it was on the outside - i.e. condensation from inside wasn't so much the problem as the fog from the outside. In that case probably only a whole-covering waterproof outside would help though.

If the ground is wet and you have to hang low though, which happened to me in that same spot going in the other direction, at least a partial section of waterproofness would be very handy.

I see a DIY project in my future :rolleyes:

Maybe you can buy/make an underquilt protector.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MedicineMan

... on Mt. Albert in horizonatal rain and only under the original Hennessey tarp (minimal coverage) the bottom did get damp on the outside.

---

Spent a night at Abingdon Gap Shelter, outside, in a thunderstorm one night with a HH A-Sym UL Backpacker, original rainfly, ... no problem at all with getting wet. However, was not using an UQ, so see how one might get some wet from wind or splash.

Why go all the way to waterproof, though? Why not just DWR (durable water resistant)? Shouldn't that be enough for splash, dew, fog, hanging in the clouds? If the original fabric isn't DWR, you can buy a spray can and spray it yourself, correct?

Rain Man

.

Underground quilts has a water resistant bottom and offers hydrophobic down as an option
Bill

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Spent a night at Abingdon Gap Shelter, outside, in a thunderstorm one night with a HH A-Sym UL Backpacker, original rainfly, ... no problem at all with getting wet. However, was not using an UQ, so see how one might get some wet from wind or splash.

Why go all the way to waterproof, though? Why not just DWR (durable water resistant)? Shouldn't that be enough for splash, dew, fog, hanging in the clouds? If the original fabric isn't DWR, you can buy a spray can and spray it yourself, correct?

Rain Man

.

---

Maybe would be enough. I don't know if my snugpak has dwr, need to check that. If it does, it's not enough for me, because it soaked up water both in that fog night, as well as when I hung low and the ground was wet. No puddles mind you, just wet from an earlier rain - which is why I'd wager it doesn't.

If it doesn't, then maybe dwr would suffice. But I wouldn't mind going all the way anyway - there aren't any particular drawbacks I can think of other than possibly a slight (negligible) weight penalty, and perhaps the condensation issue. And the fact I might have to do it myself :D Me and sewing machines... well, let's not finish that sentence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eightweight

Underground quilts has a water resistant bottom and offers hydrophobic down as an option
Bill

---

Thanks, will have a look!

As I thought, my snugpak does not seem to have dwr.

Still though, for argument's sake, does anyone think there would be a problem with condensation if the uq is sewn with the outside fabric being waterproof?

I will either try my hands at this otherwise. Or ask if someone who makes uq:s could do a custom one.. I'm that concerned about it..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by K0m4

As I thought, my snugpak does not seem to have dwr.

Still though, for argument's sake, does anyone think there would be a problem with condensation if the uq is sewn with the outside fabric being waterproof?

---

yes, there definately would be a problem there. the way a uq works, moisture passes from you through the quilt, the insulation and out the bottom layer. top and bottom layers need to be about the same degree of breathability. you don't want moisture going in faster than it can escape, otherwise it will build up in the down.

most quilt companies will be using fabric finished with a dwr treatment, this treatment does wear off over time but like mentioned already, you can buy dwr in a spray can to revive it's water resistence.

you can make the bottom layer out of silnylon, but you'd need to make the inner layer out of sil too, i've done this and it works well and really cuts the wind, the problem is you could probably never wash it or dry it so you better hope it never gets wet inside. i think you'd be better off making a sil or cuben cover that covers both sides. or you could make a cover that just covers the bottom of the quilt but you'd need to make sure it fits "baggy" so there's air space between the undercover and the quilt so the quilt has an air space to vent into

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by warbonnetguy

yes, there definately would be a problem there. the way a uq works, moisture passes from you through the quilt, the insulation and out the bottom layer. top and bottom layers need to be about the same degree of breathability. you don't want moisture going in faster than it can escape, otherwise it will build up in the down.

most quilt companies will be using fabric finished with a dwr treatment, this treatment does wear off over time but like mentioned already, you can buy dwr in a spray can to revive it's water resistence.

you can make the bottom layer out of silnylon, but you'd need to make the inner layer out of sil too, i've done this and it works well and really cuts the wind, the problem is you could probably never wash it or dry it so you better hope it never gets wet inside. i think you'd be better off making a sil or cuben cover that covers both sides. or you could make a cover that just covers the bottom of the quilt but you'd need to make sure it fits "baggy" so there's air space between the undercover and the quilt so the quilt has an air space to vent into

---

Ok, thanks for clarifying that!

Yeah, a loose cover would be a simple solution, except that I expect to encounter those conditions often enough that it would warrant a permanent solution. I guess it'd be a bit of a challenge to seamseal all the seams on a whole uq to make sure nothing gets in... Hmm, this takes some thinking about..

Hammock sock? If you run into this regularly that might be a solution.
HangingOut (hno) made medicine man a killer solution but it's Cuban (sp) & a little pricy. HNO has another solution in the works that is cheaper & Fish<>< is working on ideas for a poorman's version. There is at least one other diy sock solution with description that was posted in the spring iirc.

Ed

+1 on the DWR concept.

Justification: Three years ago, I camped at Icewater Spring Shelter, on a ridge above the shelter itself.

During the night, it rained a real thunderstorm, that lasted into morning. On that hike I was using a Virga Tarptent. With the venting all the way around the perimeter of the tent and the strong winds, lots of water blew under.

In the morning, I found myself with my feet in a pool of water and water beading on top of my bag.

BUT-- the down wasn't seriously wet. I was dry inside the bag.

I shook the water off. packed up, and hit the trail. The Kelty bag outer is DWR material.
DWR will give you the best performance.

My DIY underquilt is made of 1.1 ripstop top and bottom. This turns out to be too thin. Wind blows right through. I have to use my poncho for a wind shield. (and I suppose rain shield if I ever get that low. My 9x9 tarp is really good coverage.

Excuse my rambling. Have a good day.

Thanks for the suggestions. Maybe I'm just overly and unjustifiably suspicious of dwr. It's just so dang costly to experiment...

What if the outside layer was something like Tyvak, water resistant and breathable. Though I guess you would still have the problem with the moisture going in faster then it can escape. Just a thought on this end.

How about 2QZQ's waterproof protector/vapor barrier?
http://www.2qzqhammockhanger.com/ham...cessories.html
Should do the trick with the added benefit of the flexibility it'd give you. Waterproof when you need it, breathable when you don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karl

How about 2QZQ's waterproof protector/vapor barrier?
http://www.2qzqhammockhanger.com/ham...cessories.html
Should do the trick with the added benefit of the flexibility it'd give you. Waterproof when you need it, breathable when you don't.

---

ZQ here....the silnylon UQP is waterproof..but not breathable, and can double as a vapor barrier. The breathable UQP (made from calandered 1.1 ripstop nylon) is water/wind resistant.

[QUOTE=K0m4;812389]I was wondering if there's anyone making UQs with at least a section on the underside nearest to the ground of waterproof cloth? I noticed this summer that in some circumstances when I was "forced" to hang particularly low (e.g. in shelters and such), the uq would touch the ground. Where I'm from, you always have to be prepared for wet conditions.

I am currently living on the west coast of Oregon, the rain here is frequently a problem. Not as much as it was before so many of our forests have been hacked down.

I am still trying to decide how to keep the bottom of my UQ dry. I will follow your post to see what you come up with.

How high can water splish under a tarp. My hammick is usualy at least 30" when I'm in it. I tryed it in the back yard with a garden hose. I could not get it to splash higher then about 15" no mater the angle I used or the force of the stream.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by warbonnetguy

yes, there definately would be a problem there. the way a uq works, moisture passes from you through the quilt, the insulation and out the bottom layer. top and bottom layers need to be about the same degree of breathability. you don't want moisture going in faster than it can escape, otherwise it will build up in the down.

most quilt companies will be using fabric finished with a dwr treatment, this treatment does wear off over time but like mentioned already, you can buy dwr in a spray can to revive it's water resistence.

you can make the bottom layer out of silnylon, but you'd need to make the inner layer out of sil too, i've done this and it works well and really cuts the wind, the problem is you could probably never wash it or dry it so you better hope it never gets wet inside. i think you'd be better off making a sil or cuben cover that covers both sides. or you could make a cover that just covers the bottom of the quilt but you'd need to make sure it fits "baggy" so there's air space between the undercover and the quilt so the quilt has an air space to vent into

---

Ditto all of that. Or, if you have a double layer WB or other hammock, you could line it with a 2 oz space blanket, which I suspect would work as it does for me in the HH Super Shelter. Which is not an UQ exactly, but it is sort of. An open cell foam pad which is compressible and forms to the shape of your body, more or less. Plus a space blanket on top of that pad- snug against the bottom of the hammock- which functions as both a vapor and reflective barrier. At least for me, the fact that the SB is kept warm by my body heat prevents condensation. As we all know from our car windshields, water vapor condenses to liquid when it reaches or contacts the dew point, some colder temp. ( Sweat is an entirely different matter)

Underneath the OCF pad is a water and wind proof sil-nylon undercover. I have never had any condensation at all in the UC or OCF pad, unless I did not use the SB. ( people's experiences vary ) Sometimes, when not using the SB in the 40s, I have had no noticeable condensation, one other time I was soaked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stir Fry

How high can water splish under a tarp. My hammick is usualy at least 30" when I'm in it. I tryed it in the back yard with a garden hose. I could not get it to splash higher then about 15" no mater the angle I used or the force of the stream.

---

Pretty high, apparently. I once had an UQ get quite wet from splashup under an 11X10 tarp. I was probably hanging about normal height- the hammock was unoccupied. But the DWR on the JRB UQ did the job- fortunately I did not have to pack up - and things dried quickly on the sunny day that followed the storm, with no loss of loft even before the shell dried.

Many a time - using the small HH tarp - the bottom of my HHSS undercover has been dripping, whether from splash up, sideways rain or just dew. But all has remained dry inside.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karl

How about 2QZQ's waterproof protector/vapor barrier?
http://www.2qzqhammockhanger.com/ham...cessories.html
Should do the trick with the added benefit of the flexibility it'd give you. Waterproof when you need it, breathable when you don't.

---

This is more and more looking like the only viable solution. The problem for me is that the conditions are like that often enough that I'd basically have to set it up with the cover every time. This is why I was hoping there could be a permanent solution, "integrated" in the uq itself, to avoid having another step while setting up/breaking camp.

Maybe dwr is enough though. I think I'll give it a try. If it can keep fog, mist and morning dew at bay, I'd only need to set the extra barrier up when I hang low.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stir Fry

How high can water splish under a tarp. My hammick is usualy at least 30" when I'm in it. I tryed it in the back yard with a garden hose. I could not get it to splash higher then about 15" no mater the angle I used or the force of the stream.

---

It's not water splashing up I'm concerned about, although that could also happen I guess. Two scenarios have warranted my question: i) morning mist strong enough to make everything wet, and ii) situations where you hang really low. I had both happen to me this summer: my uq was touching the wet ground when hanging from a shelter, and the morning mist is very frequently strong enough to make water pearl and run off hard surfaces (or soft ones soaking wet) where I mostly hang. It almost has to be a particularly dry summer for it not to happen almost every morning, and in Sweden there is no such thing :D

So... yesterday I ordered a hammockgear uq, which is made with dwr, as well as the 2qzq silnylon vapor barrier. Not a cheap experiment, but I'm worth it :lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by K0m4

As I thought, my snugpak does not seem to have dwr.

Still though, for argument's sake, does anyone think there would be a problem with condensation if the uq is sewn with the outside fabric being waterproof?

I will either try my hands at this otherwise. Or ask if someone who makes uq:s could do a custom one.. I'm that concerned about it..

---

I made an uq and used breathable 1.1 on the inside and waterproof 1.1 on the outside. I am a sweaty sleeper. When I used pads I woke up soaked. With my uq, I have not noticed any moisture in this quilt. I spent 4 nights in the Adirondacks 2weeks ago when the conditions were cold and wet every day. Still no condensation. I have 6oz climashield apex for insulation maybe it would be different with down, IDK. I was worried about condensation when I put it together and always keep an eye on it. I have noticed that its warmer than my other quilt which has breathable 1.1 on both sides. I was chilly at 40*. But with the waterproof bottom I was comfy to ~35*.

Just my two cents

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lattie11581

I made an uq and used breathable 1.1 on the inside and waterproof 1.1 on the outside. I am a sweaty sleeper. When I used pads I woke up soaked. With my uq, I have not noticed any moisture in this quilt. I spent 4 nights in the Adirondacks 2weeks ago when the conditions were cold and wet every day. Still no condensation. I have 6oz climashield apex for insulation maybe it would be different with down, IDK. I was worried about condensation when I put it together and always keep an eye on it. I have noticed that its warmer than my other quilt which has breathable 1.1 on both sides. I was chilly at 40*. But with the waterproof bottom I was comfy to ~35*.

Just my two cents

---

Haha, of course this comes the day after I spent hundreds of dollars! :lol:Thanks for your input though, it's good to know that the idea may work. If dwr isn't up to the task, I may try to figure a solution like this out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lattie11581

I made an uq and used breathable 1.1 on the inside and waterproof 1.1 on the outside. I am a sweaty sleeper. When I used pads I woke up soaked. With my uq, I have not noticed any moisture in this quilt. I spent 4 nights in the Adirondacks 2weeks ago when the conditions were cold and wet every day. Still no condensation. I have 6oz climashield apex for insulation maybe it would be different with down, IDK. I was worried about condensation when I put it together and always keep an eye on it. I have noticed that its warmer than my other quilt which has breathable 1.1 on both sides. I was chilly at 40*. But with the waterproof bottom I was comfy to ~35*.

Just my two cents

---

what kind of waterproof 1.1 is it? got a link to the source?