Cheap Cheap whoopee

Hi, new here but been at the other forum for a while.....

Anyway, I am enthralled by whoopee slings and possibilities,
But because I'm cheap, I want to make them from locally available 3/8 inch yellow hollow braid poly rope.

On the package it says working load is 200 lbs or so.
But the specs on line gives 2880 lbs as tensile strength.

see here:
http://www.safelandindustrial.com/ap...il.asp?did=409


I'm a big guy and with a 30° hang with my weight 200 lbs of tension is possible.

Am I in danger of catastrophic headfirst midnight dismount (CMHD)?

Polecat

that might work but i wouldnt trust it.

Amsteel is SOO cheap and easy to work with. On top of that once you get it down youll have some sweet kit. just my thoughts on the whole thing.

Its OK to be cheap. But your suspension really isn't the place to do it. Amsteel is pretty cheap. Get a hold of Paul at Arrowhead, he's also in Idaho. I'll bet you'd get your order the next day:thumbup1:

...I believe in doing stuff like suspension only once,.....pay a few extra pennies and you wont have to worry about a hassle down the road........just my two cents :)

The big reason amsteel rope is so popular is the strength to bulk ratio. It packs small and light.
Your choice of 3/8 poly hollow core will work. I've used it in the past, down to 5/16ths diameter. Held me up just fine. Makes fine whoopies.

As stated, there are better choices and your money can be more wisely spent. You'll probably end up modifying and upgrading eventually, we all do. Might want to just get the good stuff from the start.

That's than 800 lbs. more strength than the webbing mountain climbers have been depending on for many years.

It's also a better than 14 to 1 safety margin, 10 to 1 is a lot, and 5 to 1 is quite acceptable for applications where there will be no shock loads.

One thing though, while you'll retain 80% or better strength with a splice, as opposed to a knot, you should also consider the radius of what ever your attaching to. Smaller radius' = more stress.

You won't be jumping up and down in your bed will you?

This is from OSHA,

1910.269(r)(7)(i)

Climbing ropes shall be used by employees working aloft in trees. These ropes shall have a minimum diameter of 0.5 inch (1.2 cm) with a minimum breaking strength of 2300 pounds (10.2 kN). Synthetic rope shall have elasticity of not more than 7 percent.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ARDS&p_id=9868

You've got to be careful what you listen to around here. I suspect a lot of these guys work for some of these manufactures.

Many of them will have you spending 10 times what you need to.

Having said all that, poly-rope isn't very nice to work with in my humble opinion. I like softer more pliable material. But that is a matter of preference not function.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by weedeater64

You've got to be careful what you listen to around here. I suspect a lot of these guys work for some of these manufactures.

Many of them will have you spending 10 times what you need to.

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Really Jeff P./Weerdeater.

Two posts with anti social behavior??
Do you think my info is because I'm getting reimbursed monetarily??

REALLY.

I don't think you have a grasp on the whole purpose of this forum.

I do not, nor have I accepted or earned any earnings from any of the companies.

I, personally, am offended by your recent comments.

They are derogatory and totally lack any bias.

For future reference, please use only factual info, you are speculating that the info here is just to the financial benefit of a few.

I completely disagree.
This forum is free to join and free to leave. If you believe the info passed along on this forum is just for the all might dollar, your totally wrong.

The purpose of this forum is to advance the comfort and hanging experience.
Period.

If I find a product that works and can help others and in some way suggest it to others, it is not because I am making money.
Your being quite irrational in your comments.

I am a member here first. And recently, due to some creativity and craftmanship, became a vendor. I pride myself on my relationship with HF. Not only have I learned a lot of useful information, I have made a lot of friends. And had a few good laughs.

If you get your jollies by saying things like this, please don't comment any more. If this is your way of trying to make friends, it ain't working.

If you have good practical advice to give and share, then by all means join in.

To sit there and point fingers at my friends and family here on the forum, will not be tolerated.

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Originally Posted by weedeater64

That's than 800 lbs. more strength than the webbing mountain climbers have been depending on for many years.

It's also a better than 14 to 1 safety margin, 10 to 1 is a lot, and 5 to 1 is quite acceptable for applications where there will be no shock loads.

One thing though, while you'll retain 80% or better strength with a splice, as opposed to a knot, you should also consider the radius of what ever your attaching to. Smaller radius' = more stress.

You won't be jumping up and down in your bed will you?

This is from OSHA,

1910.269(r)(7)(i)

Climbing ropes shall be used by employees working aloft in trees. These ropes shall have a minimum diameter of 0.5 inch (1.2 cm) with a minimum breaking strength of 2300 pounds (10.2 kN). Synthetic rope shall have elasticity of not more than 7 percent.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ARDS&p_id=9868

You've got to be careful what you listen to around here. I suspect a lot of these guys work for some of these manufactures.

Many of them will have you spending 10 times what you need to.

Having said all that, poly-rope isn't very nice to work with in my humble opinion. I like softer more pliable material. But that is a matter of preference not function.

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Man, you have been eating too much weed! Put it down!

You suspect wrong, Information posted on this forum is for the benefit of the many, not the few.
I reckon you might have insulted quite a few of us who have read your post. :(

Weedeater, I'll respectfully direct you to this thread. I'd suggest that you read and understand it thoroughly before further posting. You're beginning to insult and offend some here. Folks here know who are and aren't gear manufacturers and no one gets kickbacks from giving advice, especially when said advice bears in on someone's safety. As far as the "the three dollar stove" is concerned, jealousy really is an ugly emotion. :rolleyes:

Back on Polecat's original topic...

Polypropylene is known for "walking" which means that it can stretch without recovering. It will actually get longer, and then break. So, if you use polypropylene, make certain you are well under the maximum working load. 200 lbs maximum working load is not enough.

Amsteel stretches less than any other rope, even less than wire rope. It is perfect for hammock suspensions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Polecat

Hi, new here but been at the other forum for a while.....

Anyway, I am enthralled by whoopee slings and possibilities,
But because I'm cheap, I want to make them from locally available 3/8 inch yellow hollow braid poly rope.

On the package it says working load is 200 lbs or so.
But the specs on line gives 2880 lbs as tensile strength.

see here:
http://www.safelandindustrial.com/ap...il.asp?did=409


I'm a big guy and with a 30° hang with my weight 200 lbs of tension is possible.

Am I in danger of catastrophic headfirst midnight dismount (CMHD)?

Polecat

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If my math isn´t totally wrong the tension on your line (with a 30° hang and weighing 200 lbs) would be 400 lbs.
If the poly rope can take a load of 1980 lbs that would give you a safety of approx 1:5.
That´s (for me) enough.

But, and theres always one, is that the rope might be difficult to handle, it might not be weather-resistant and so on.
But, test it, and let us know how it works.

Says me, who is thinking in the same direction.....:cool:
(Because I can´t get any Amsteel Blue where I live:()

For what its worth, Ive had straps (cheap and effective ) rope and now some pre-made woopies ( in max length so I could diy some nacrabiners from the running end!)

As a comment on previous posts, at the risk of being off topic:

Being a DIY kinda guy, I like making my own stuff and being somewhat self-reliant. I can weld, swing a spanner, do woodwork and so on. Not everyone is like this. I build my own gear to give me pleasure, not cos it's always cheaper and definately not coz it's time efficient. This is why there are people who make "budget" alky stoves and cottage guys who make the "niche" equipment. If you dont like it, dont buy it....simple. However, there is always someone who feels that their time and effort is better spent doing what they do well, to earn the $$$ to pay someone else to do what they do well.

This forum has been a breath of fresh air for me on the Net. To find such a broad, unbiased collection of info and good honest feedback (a lot of it from the people who's "gear" we are building DIY) is a rare thing.

Sorry for the essay, but I'd hate to see this blow out into a big deal over a very small difference of opinions

HYOH ...... Browny

I used 3/8 in, hollow braid polypropylene line for a good while. I did not use it with as a whoopie sling so I don't know how well it works for that. A simple slippery bowline knot held and released fine which makes adjustments pretty easy to do. A slippery bowline knot words so well with that rope that I don't know that I would worry about making a whoopie sling with it. Whoopie slings are neat for hammock suspensions but they have their negatives as well. One thing is that you use a lot more rope, about twice as much. And when you have it adjusted to its minimum length you have a lot of excess rope hanging off, in the way. With small diameter AmSteel that isn't near the problem it will be with bulkier, heavier, and springier polypropylene.

It is nice that you can find it at practically any hardware store and for a reasonable price. What I don't like about it is it stretches continually during the night, which is something you can deal with but once you use a suspension that doesn't stretch like that you probably won't be happy with one that does. I typically ended up 6 inches or so lower to the ground in the morning with the polypropylene line. But heck, it works, is easy to get, and doesn't cost much; sometimes that's all you want.

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Originally Posted by Youngblood

What I don't like about it is it stretches continually during the night, which is something you can deal with ...

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That's the "walking" I was referring to... after stretching a small amount, polypropylene walks, in that it no longer rebounds or recovers 100%. The result of walking is narrowing; it's kind of a permanent stretch. If the load is enough to cause it to walk, it can eventually lead to failure, as each time you hang it walks a little further.

Of course, we probably have lots of hangers here who will say that they have hung for years with light, braided polypropylene, without any problems!

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Originally Posted by MacEntyre

That's the "walking" I was referring to... after stretching a small amount, polypropylene walks, in that it no longer rebounds or recovers 100%. The result of walking is narrowing; it's kind of a permanent stretch. If the load is enough to cause it to walk, it can eventually lead to failure, as each time you hang it walks a little further.

Of course, we probably have lots of hangers here who will say that they have hung for years with light, braided polypropylene, without any problems!

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I think that the stretch under tension of all ropes leads to failure and is why over the years I have brought up my concerns of people tying too low on the trees and repeatedly retightening with some of the suspension adjustments that allow them to pull the suspension very taut. (I have wondered if a certain load caused a certain amount of stretch and it was the specific stretch that caused the failure rather than a specific load causing a failure. If a load was hanging straight down that argument would be mute; but with our horizontal loading that is reduced by stretching under some initially tremendous loading and can be retightened and stretched again before it has recovered, that may not be a mute point.)

I used the 3/8 hollow braid polypropylene for a few years without any problems, but without a structural ridgeline and have know of quite a few others that have as well. I don't know what Clark Hammocks is using these days but at one time they used 3 twisted stands of polypropylene rope, 1/4 on some and maybe 3/8 on others? I didn't like the 3 strands on my home made hammock because I had the strands separate enough where I had tied and released a slippery bowline that it looked like only 2 strands might take the load, and I didn't like that.

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Originally Posted by peter1969

If my math isn´t totally wrong the tension on your line (with a 30° hang and weighing 200 lbs) would be 400 lbs.
If the poly rope can take a load of 1980 lbs that would give you a safety of approx 1:5.
That´s (for me) enough.

But, and theres always one, is that the rope might be difficult to handle, it might not be weather-resistant and so on.
But, test it, and let us know how it works.

Says me, who is thinking in the same direction.....:cool:
(Because I can´t get any Amsteel Blue where I live:()

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Hmm, I have to quote myself since I´ve got some corrections about my math...
The tension of 400 lbs is on BOTH lines which means that the tension on each line is 200 lbs. That means that the safety is 1:10.

But as someone said to me there are knots and other things that will make the line less strong which means that 1:10 is if the knots are perfect and there isn´t anythin as a perfect knot:cool:

Still you should be able to use that line and sleep safe during the night!:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by weedeater64

You've got to be careful what you listen to around here. I suspect a lot of these guys work for some of these manufactures.

Many of them will have you spending 10 times what you need to.

Having said all that, poly-rope isn't very nice to work with in my humble opinion. I like softer more pliable material. But that is a matter of preference not function.

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There is a big difference between cheap and inexpensive. This was a cheap shot, amsteel is inexpensive.

even better when you consider the strength to weight ratio of each, and then compare the strength to cost/foot of each one. Amsteel may cost more per foot, but less per unit of weight supported and less (I think) per ounce. certainly less per cubic inch occupied in the pack.
Win, Win, Win!
KM (who hopes that helped some..)

Yeah, you´re probably right on that one.
But, since I live in Sweden, I would have to order Amsteel from US if I want some of that. It´s easier to get polypropylene-rope from my hardwarestore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peter1969

Yeah, you´re probably right on that one.
But, since I live in Sweden, I would have to order Amsteel from US if I want some of that. It´s easier to get polypropylene-rope from my hardwarestore.

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You don't need amsteel, there are equivalent european ropes.

Marlow, English braids, Liros to name a few. Arboreal throw lines like zing it must be available too, you guys aren't short of trees. :)

Check out these guys, they do 2mm 900 kg dynamic line for £1.40/ M. Its great for whoopies.

http://www.nauticalrope.co.uk/index....ex&cPath=41_44

Here is a good reason not to cut it too close when sizing line for whoopies.

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Originally Posted by turnerminator

Check out these guys, they do 2mm 900 kg dynamic line for £1.40/ M. Its great for whoopies.

http://www.nauticalrope.co.uk/index....ex&cPath=41_44

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Oops!
I just found out that my local hardwarestore has that rope in there catalogue....
Must check the price they have!
Thanx!:lol::lol::lol: