All-in-one whoopie sling / Dutch Clip suspension.

I had played with whoopie slings previously, and wasn't really sold on them - I loved the straightforward simplicity of my webbing and triangle buckle suspension on my Warbonnet. With the single piece of webbing for both suspension and tree hugger, all I had to do was pull out the webbing, wrap it around the tree, and clip a carabiner. But I wanted it to be lighter and less bulky, while maintaining that simplicity.

Enter the all-in-one whoopie sling/Dutch Clip suspension. Basically, this emulates the simplicity of the webbing setup, but is lighter and easier to adjust since it incorporates a whoopie sling. What I did was make a whoopie sling where the sling passed through a piece of rubber hose that was fastened in place inside one loop on the tree hugger. The other loop on the tree hugger then has a Dutch Clip on it, so I could simply pass the tree hugger around the tree, clip it in place, and pull the whoopie sling to the appropriate length. Since the whoopie sling is permanently attached to the tree hugger, there is no fussing with toggles, and it's impossible to forget your tree hugger and leave it behind.


Here's how I made it:

First, I tied an overhand on a bight into one end of a 12 foot piece of Amsteel. Then, I buried the working end inside the amsteel, like I was splicing it. This was mostly just to hide the ugly end of the cord, and also help prevent the line from pulling through. This will be the loop that gets girth hitched onto the Blackbird whipping mass. There are lots of threads describing how to replace the BB suspension, so I won't go into them.

Here's that loop, along with my highly sophisticated splicing tool
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/a...1&d=1276140887


My next concern was how to pass the whoopie sling through the webbing loop on the tree hugger, without worrying about abrading the line or webbing when I adjust things. I decided to insert a piece of rubber tubing through the loop, then run the line through that tubing. I later put a few stitches in the webbing behind the tubing to hold it in place, similarly to how you fasten a Dutch Clip in place.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/a...1&d=1276140882

Now, all I had to do was run that line back to the hammock end, and do a 10" bury for a standard whoopie sling suspension, go hang it, and see if I fell on my butt :scared:

Here's the Dutch Clip in action:

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/a...9&d=1276140882

And here's the whoopie sling bury:

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/a...8&d=1276140882

And finally the connection point between the tubing and the tree hugger (this picture was taken with someone in the hammock):

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/a...0&d=1276140882



There is some question about how durable the tubing will be, but I've used the exact same stuff in the lab while running experiments, and it was part of a pump that had rollers being driven against it by a motor for hours on end, and never had a tubing failure, so it's pretty resilient stuff. Even if the tubing were to fail, it's not structural - it's just there to reduce friction between the rope-on-webbing connection.



All in all, I vastly prefer this system to other whoopie sling setups. It's just as quick to deploy as my old webbing based system, while being both lighter and more compact. And it doesn't need a half-hitch knot to keep from slipping like my webbing did.



Edit: updated with some weight information:
suspension type: g oz
1 side webbing suspenson (no biner) 108 3.81
1 side webbing suspension (with biner) 132 4.66
1 side whoopie sling susp (no dutch clip) 58 2.05 (calculated - Dutch clips were sewn in when I decided to weigh)
1 side whoopie sling susp. (w/ dutch clip) 74 2.61

so the most fair comparison, the suspensions without biners or dutch clips, saves 1.8 oz per side, or 3.6 oz total. With the Dutch clips included, my total suspension weight is 5.2 oz. I'll take it.

Very nice!

looks like a good system.i like your use of the tubing .is it sewn in place?i have been thinking of trying a small heavy duty spring for that same purpose.

Mustard... Ive been using rope thimbles at the webbing/sling connection end. I also flip the sling around and use the fixed eye in the webbing loop so I can use the rope thimble.

Its been relatively popular. I had some aprehension about flipping the sling around, but so far no complaints.

Yeah I saw the rope thimbles and they would definitely do the job in a bit more sophisticated fashion - I was just trying to eliminate as much metal as possible from the setup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by opie

Its been relatively popular. I had some aprehension about flipping the sling around, but so far no complaints.

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I'm a big fan of adjusting suspension right at the hammock rather than the tree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by opie

I had some aprehension about flipping the sling around, but so far no complaints.

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What is the improvement by flipping it?

mustardman - curious.

Your first step seems to be making a fixed eye for connecting to the hammock. Correct?

If that is so, why not simply splice a fixed eye?

The main reason I didn't splice a fixed eye is that it requires a longer bury, meaning the whoopie sling bury will be pushed further from the hammock, and the minimum distance between trees is larger. I buried the tail from the overhand purely for aesthetic reasons, and it was only two inches of tail at the most.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mustardman

Yeah I saw the rope thimbles and they would definitely do the job in a bit more sophisticated fashion - I was just trying to eliminate as much metal as possible from the setup.

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I cant fault that logic. The thimbles only weigh 2 grams a piece.

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Originally Posted by sclittlefield

I'm a big fan of adjusting suspension right at the hammock rather than the tree.

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Yep.. that is the norm. Its not that much different making the adjustment at the webbing end. Unless you have to hang it high... But if you can reach up and hang your straps, you can reach the adjustable tail.

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Originally Posted by HappyCamper

What is the improvement by flipping it?

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So that I can use the thimble. Its not so much an improvement as it is a way to allow me to use the thimble to keep the Amsteel and webbing from cinching down on one another. I could feasibly attach it the standard way, with the fixed eye at the hammock. But then one would have to fiddle with making sure the adjustable loop is placed in the thimble prior to loading, since there is nothing to keep it locked in the thimble. I started making this system without a thimble and having the adjustable loop in the webbing loop. But for longevity reasons, I decided to flip it around so there isnt as much were and tear where the cord and webbing make contact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mustardman

The main reason I didn't splice a fixed eye is that it requires a longer bury, meaning the whoopie sling bury will be pushed further from the hammock, and the minimum distance between trees is larger. I buried the tail from the overhand purely for aesthetic reasons, and it was only two inches of tail at the most.

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Okay, thanks. That satisfies my curiosity and I knew you had very good reason.

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Originally Posted by opie

Mustard... Ive been using rope thimbles at the webbing/sling connection end. I also flip the sling around and use the fixed eye in the webbing loop so I can use the rope thimble.

Its been relatively popular. I had some aprehension about flipping the sling around, but so far no complaints.

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Opie -where did you get the ss thimbles. Lowes or Home Depot by any chance?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mustardman

The main reason I didn't splice a fixed eye is that it requires a longer bury, meaning the whoopie sling bury will be pushed further from the hammock, and the minimum distance between trees is larger. I buried the tail from the overhand purely for aesthetic reasons, and it was only two inches of tail at the most.

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I understand the length concerns but Amsteel is very slippery and knots tend to unwind so keep an eye on it.

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Originally Posted by Knotty

I understand the length concerns but Amsteel is very slippery and knots tend to unwind so keep an eye on it.

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I've been hanging off a loop tied with an overhand in a bight ever since I bought my blackbird, and it hasn't slipped at all. I'm not worried about it.

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Originally Posted by TiredFeet

Opie -where did you get the ss thimbles. Lowes or Home Depot by any chance?

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No... Ive scored some off Ebay... From this seller

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Stainless-Ste...item2eaab7c92f

I prefer the Sea Dog brand

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sea-Dog-S-S-Heav...item3a5a45591a

You can also grab the Sea Dog brand from Redden, or I found some at a good price here...

http://www.greenboatstuff.com/seadogststhe1.html

I think the ones HD and Lowes sell are galv. not SS.

Thanks - I decided to try ebay - 10 for $7.50 until I'm sure we'll be using them. Maybe no, maybe yes.

Until I have the in hand and actually fit them to the huggers and whoopie, not sure. Don't want hardware, but still concerned about that crazy small Dynaglide and cutting through anything else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by opie

No... Ive scored some off Ebay... From this seller

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Stainless-Ste...item2eaab7c92f

I prefer the Sea Dog brand

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sea-Dog-S-S-Heav...item3a5a45591a

You can also grab the Sea Dog brand from Redden, or I found some at a good price here...

http://www.greenboatstuff.com/seadogststhe1.html

I think the ones HD and Lowes sell are galv. not SS.

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As an update on the knot issue, I checked the cord suspension that came with my Blackbird - it's got an overhand on a bight with about an inch of tail hanging out of the end, and has never slipped. I use it all the time on my DIY balcony hammock. So I wouldn't worry about an overhand on a bight on this thickness of Amsteel slipping.


I could have also done the loop with a locked brummel, which would take a bit less line, and be cleaner than an overhand on a bight. Since the locked brummel doesn't require a long bury, it would fix the issue I have with a traditionally spliced fixed eye. If I were using thinner Amsteel, I would probably have done the locked brummel to protect the strength of the cord, but for this thick stuff it doesn't really matter, and the overhand on a bight is faster to tie, so I used that. Purely a matter of personal preference, and if anyone else wants to make something similar, use whichever you're more comfortable with.

Very neatly done. Perhaps more neatly than necessary. I think the tubing is not really necessary. But it's classy.:)

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Originally Posted by WV

Very neatly done. Perhaps more neatly than necessary. I think the tubing is not really necessary. But it's classy.:)

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Good thing I didn't show the backsplice behind the stopper knot to keep the adjustable tail of the whoopie sling from pulling through :D


I don't think of the tubing (or other options like rope thimbles) as strictly necessary, but I do think they will extend the lifetime of the tree huggers. I've seen enough examples of ropes sawing through webbing in my climbing career that I am pretty paranoid about soft-on-soft connections, and always like to have something between them to eliminate the kind of rubbing that can wear them out.

Understood. I haven't run into ropes sawing through webbing - probably because with HF, novelty is a more potent agent of change than friction. :D

My HH treehuggers are fraying in the loops from the cords sawing through. It's a problem when the hammock is weighted and I pulled it tight. So now I just lift up on the support before I pull it tight and there's no friction.

I used a version of the all in one setup like MM listed on my Smokies hike. I liked it a lot, but it does limit the ability to store the huggers separately if they get wet/muddy/covered in tree sap. So I don't know if I want to permanently attach them.

I actually thought about adding a silnylon pouch or two to the outside of my blackbishop sack, so the huggers could be stored inside those pouches if they were wet or dirty. For the time being, though, I would just leave the suspension out of the bishop bag, and run it to the outside of the pack and stuff the huggers in a pocket. Not completely separate, but good enough I think.

When I used the webbing suspension, I never had a problem with just leaving the suspension outside of the bag and letting it hang out of the pack if I was worried about it being wet. I never bothered to remove it from the buckles.

Worst case, the point where the whoopies are girth hitched onto the hammock takes about 5 seconds to undo, so I could always just do that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mustardman

I don't think of the tubing (or other options like rope thimbles) as strictly necessary, but I do think they will extend the lifetime of the tree huggers. I've seen enough examples of ropes sawing through webbing in my climbing career that I am pretty paranoid about soft-on-soft connections, and always like to have something between them to eliminate the kind of rubbing that can wear them out.

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My thoughts exactly. Not neccessary.. But should increase the longevity of the components.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mustardman

Worst case, the point where the whoopies are girth hitched onto the hammock takes about 5 seconds to undo, so I could always just do that.

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Yeah, but on the WBBB that girth hitch also holds up the ridgeline, which sticks out of the gathered end. Putting it back on won't be a problem unless the ridgeline slipped back through the gathered end. It's a bit of a hassle to poke the ridgeline through that little hole.

Have you thought about replacing the dutch clips with nacrabiners to go even lighter, or does that slow it down to much for your preference, cause they do take a bit longer to lock in place. Could even use it at the point the whoppie connects with the hugger, would allow you to remove the huggers if dirty, while barely increase weight.

I've made some nacrabiners, but I greatly prefer the simplicity of the Dutch clips. The whole idea of this system wasn't to get as light as possible - it was to reduce bulk and weight while remaining at least as convenient and fast as my webbing/biner suspension.

Seeing as how I've never once removed my webbing suspension due to it being wet or dirty, I'm not terribly concerned about adding extra complexity just to be able to remove this one. This version is functionally identical to my webbing suspension, which I loved, but a decent bit lighter, and more importantly, much less bulky.

I am not an ultralight hiker by any means - I won't be cutting straps off my packs, and I will usually be carrying a knife that weighs at least a pound. I am not terribly concerned about the 31 grams - I cut weight where it doesn't inconvenience me at all, but I keep things that make my life easier, and the Dutch clips definitely fit the bill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mustardman

...I will usually be carrying a knife that weighs at least a pound...

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Or three... :jj:

I've wanted to pack my straps separately before b/c they had sap on them, but I just wrapped them around the outside of my BB bag. I guess it's not that big of a deal if you're using a system where you can keep the huggers separated from the quilts.

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Originally Posted by Just Jeff

Or three... :jj:

I've wanted to pack my straps separately before b/c they had sap on them, but I just wrapped them around the outside of my BB bag.

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I think I went pretty light at the spring hang, and only had four knives on me. :rolleyes::lol:

But the straps outside the bag are why I'm not too worried about removing them, especially using the BB bag, since I can just let them hang outside each end.

Mustard,
I know this is about a month too late but just read this thread and was thinking that maybe you could cut a short piece of nylon tube tape and sew it in place instead of the plastic tubing?
i think its great to run chord through to reduce wear and tear.
unfortunately my slackline is getting shorter and shorter the more i use the stuff :(

Looks good

Thanks for the ideas. I just switched out suspension on my DIY hammock and my WBBB to use a similar set-up. I used 1/4" clear vinyl tubing to sleeve the 7/64 amsteel where the whoopie slings loop through the eye of the webbing.

I use a soft shackle (like Opie shows in his thread) made from 7/64 amsteel in lieu of the dutch clip. For my soft shackles I add a small loop of Zing It in the closed loop to help me open the closed end when its tightened.

What are the plastic beads for on the whoopie slings?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by opie

Mustard... Ive been using rope thimbles at the webbing/sling connection end. I also flip the sling around and use the fixed eye in the webbing loop so I can use the rope thimble.

Its been relatively popular. I had some aprehension about flipping the sling around, but so far no complaints.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightwalker

What are the plastic beads for on the whoopie slings?

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So the adjustable loop doesnt inadvertently turn into a backsplice. i.e. get pulled into itself.