Hennessy Hammock Hyperlight vs. Clark Jungle North American

I know this seems crazy, but I am an ultra light packer and am considering a North American (3lbs. 2 oz) over a HH Hyperlite (1 lb. 10 oz).:eek:

Why? Because of the insulating gear pockets on the North American which I assume means I don't need to bring an extra sleeping pad and/or quilt. (Maybe even sleeping bag also???) Also, the North American seems like it is more durable, comfortable and weather proof. :mellow:

Does what I am saying make sense for a 3 (occasionally 4) season setup?
Any other advice comparing these two or another hammock?

Thanks in advance to all you hammock experts out there!:)

Ariel

IMO, no it doesn't make sense. I'm also ultralight and have tried just about every Hennessy ever made and the Clark.

The pockets by themselves don't add any insulation so you still need something to put inside there. I also didn't care much for the lay of a Clark.

I suggest you look at a Hennessy Deep Jungle that has the pocket under it so you could add whatever into that for insulation.

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Originally Posted by ArielTRV

I know this seems crazy, but I am an ultra light packer and am considering a North American (3lbs. 2 oz) over a HH Hyperlite (1 lb. 10 oz).:eek:

Why? Because of the insulating gear pockets on the North American which I assume means I don't need to bring an extra sleeping pad and/or quilt. (Maybe even sleeping bag also???) Also, the North American seems like it is more durable, comfortable and weather proof. :mellow:

Does what I am saying make sense for a 3 (occasionally 4) season setup?
Any other advice comparing these two or another hammock?

Thanks in advance to all you hammock experts out there!:)

Ariel

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I know the Clark NA is listed as a 4 season hammock and I'm guessing that's part of the reasoning you're using to compair these two hammocks. But to actually be able to use the Clark NA you'll need to add bottom insulation either by putting something inside those pockets (and something under your feet) or by disreguarding the under pockets and just using a pad or an under quilt.
So if I'm understanding you right, you're thinking that the Clark would be lighter in the long run because it's already got the insulation and you'd have to add that to the HH. The pockets just make it easier to add some kind of insulation ... insulation that you still need to carry.
As far as the comfort factor between these two hammocks, you will need to test them and see which one you like. The durability will probably depend on how you treat them. I've got the Clark, it's extreamly well made with very nice skeeter proof material for the main hammock body. I don't know about the HH, someone else will need to speak for them. And weatherproof will probably depend on how well you learn to set the tarp. Any hammock can get wet if you set the tarp wrong or a big storm rolls in and you're set up in breezy mode!!
On a side note, I've got the Clark Tropical. A very diffinate 3 season (ok, maybe it's a 2 season) hammock that I use year round. I've even camped out last year in the snow and around 20 degrees. What I'm trying to say is that you don't have to have a "4 season" hammock to be able to camp all 4 seasons. Ya just gotta use the right insulation!!! And maybe the right tarp too also helps.

TinaLouise

Tina is right but you also can not disregard the weathershield on the NA. Zipping it closed does hold heat in and does add a few degrees inside even if it is just from blocking the wind.

From reading this on junglehammock.com I got the feeling that I did not need to put anything in the pockets?

"How do the Clark North American’s Insulating Pockets work?
Clark's patented pocket design locks in a stable air mass below you to deflect cold air that would otherwise cool the hammock material below your back. When you add a high quality sleeping bag, you can avoid having to buy cumbersome insulating pads and liners."

Don't believe the hype. You need to put something down there.

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Originally Posted by ArielTRV

From reading this on junglehammock.com I got the feeling that I did not need to put anything in the pockets?

"How do the Clark North American’s Insulating Pockets work?
Clark's patented pocket design locks in a stable air mass below you to deflect cold air that would otherwise cool the hammock material below your back. When you add a high quality sleeping bag, you can avoid having to buy cumbersome insulating pads and liners."

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It might get you a few degrees compared to nothing, Kind of like some folks say a HH sil-nylon UC, all by itself, adds 5 or 10*F. So, I'm guessing instead of being a bit cool at 75 or 70, maybe you could do 65 or even 60. But I think at 40 or maybe even 50, your going to need something in those pockets. But what do I know, I've never tried it.

The HH Hyperlight and an HH Supershelter weighs 2 lb 10 oz.
http://www.hennessyhammock.com/specs...pad_small.html

It would work great for me to low 40s, probably OK to at least low 30s. Just for one example of many approaches that would work.

Another: A WB 3 season Yeti (11.5 oz) plus HH Hyper = 2 lb 5.5 oz, good to 30s. PLus a few oz for a leg pad, but you probably have a sit pad with you any way, or use your pack. There are several other lightweight possibilities. ( Then, with both of the above, when it is quite warm leave it all behind and save the weight!)

I have noticed in warm weather my back is a little warm,
I'm thinking with no pockets it would be a little cooler,
kinda like the Tropical has a couple of pockets at each end
and would likely be cooler.

Not sure yet what temp. I would go to with M/T pockets . . .

I have just ordered the Z-Liners
and will as time goes on I will give reports using and not using them.

The only place I've ever seen anyone claim that the Clark is 20F hammock by itself is on the Clark website. I've never heard anyone claim personal experience a Clark near that temp without additional insulation.

YMMV, of course...but there are a lot of Clark users here, and winter hammockers here, and I have a strong feeling that if that claim could be validated we'd have independent evidence of it by now.

Or maybe I just haven't been keeping up...if I'm mistaken, someone please point me in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by ArielTRV

From reading this on junglehammock.com I got the feeling that I did not need to put anything in the pockets?

"How do the Clark North American’s Insulating Pockets work?
Clark's patented pocket design locks in a stable air mass below you to deflect cold air that would otherwise cool the hammock material below your back. When you add a high quality sleeping bag, you can avoid having to buy cumbersome insulating pads and liners."

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One of my friends has the NA another has a Tropical like mine. When we camp together, the NA user uses less insulation than we Tropical's do. During the summer, all of us will use nothing on the bottom. I've gotten inside the NA in the summer and was way to warm!! So those under pockets are holding in some heat. But not enough to keep you warm when the temps start dropping in the fall. And in the winter, you will need added insulation. At that point, you're not just using those pockets to "deflect cold air" but you also have the "real" air temps to deal with. The "weathershield" on the Clark works the same way. It deflects the wind and keeps some of your body heat inside the hammock.
What Clark is writing in their ad is correct but also misleading.

TinaLouise

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Originally Posted by Just Jeff

The only place I've ever seen anyone claim that the Clark is 20F hammock by itself is on the Clark website. I've never heard anyone claim personal experience a Clark near that temp without additional insulation.

YMMV, of course...but there are a lot of Clark users here, and winter hammockers here, and I have a strong feeling that if that claim could be validated we'd have independent evidence of it by now.

Or maybe I just haven't been keeping up...if I'm mistaken, someone please point me in the right direction.

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There are two reference to the pockets that I can find on the site and you have it slightly off

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"Quote from Clark site"
Patented pockets for insulation (Four-season models):
The Clark North American is the only hammock that removes any need for insulating pads in most weather. The insulating pockets provide a stable air mass underneath you to block cold air from reaching your back.

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Quote:

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"Quote from Clark site"
The Z-Liner system fits four-season models to create a comfortable bed in temperatures below 32° F (0° C).

and

Cold Weather Ratings for the Z-Liner are difficult to specify since they depend greatly upon what kind of sleeping bag or quilt you are using inside the hammock and how whether you are a cold sleeper.
In general, the additon of the Z-liner should allow you to comfortably sleep at least 20° F (9° C) lower than you otherwise could. The Z-Liner has been thoroughly tested to work extremely well down to at least single digit temperatures (Fahrenheit) when deployed correctly.

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I hope that helps :D

That does help, Bradley - thanks. I haven't been to the site in a long time (over a year, probably) so that's an update...it used to say that it was a true 4-season hammock without any additional insulation, so this is a bit more accurate.

Even so, I'd be skeptical that it would be comfortable to 32F without any additional insulation. Anyone have experience at that temp?

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Originally Posted by Just Jeff

That does help, Bradley - thanks. I haven't been to the site in a long time (over a year, probably) so that's an update...it used to say that it was a true 4-season hammock without any additional insulation, so this is a bit more accurate.

Even so, I'd be skeptical that it would be comfortable to 32F without any additional insulation. Anyone have experience at that temp?

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I got a chance to use Snowwhites NA this past march and I was cold in it even with items stuffed into the pockets at just 55 Degrees, I dont even know if I would have been comfortable up to 10 Degrees warmer. I had to use a supplemental pad and even then my arms got cold if they touched the hammock..

That was my primary reason for not purchasing one..

"dirt"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just Jeff

That does help, Bradley - thanks. I haven't been to the site in a long time (over a year, probably) so that's an update...it used to say that it was a true 4-season hammock without any additional insulation, so this is a bit more accurate.

Even so, I'd be skeptical that it would be comfortable to 32F without any additional insulation. Anyone have experience at that temp?

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the clark web site says you need the z-liner to take it to 32 degrees.
Anytime I've camped with my Tropical, I always have under quilts with me, for just in case!!! I'm a cold sleeper so I don't need for the temps to drop by much before I need an UQ. At 32 degrees, I'm already using my winter UQ!!! My friend with the NA can usually go a few degrees colder than I can before needing her UQ. For me, I need an UQ at about 74 or lower. She doesn't need one till like 69 or lower.

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Originally Posted by Pak-Man

I got a chance to use Snowwhites NA this past march and I was cold in it even with items stuffed into the pockets at just 55 Degrees, I dont even know if I would have been comfortable up to 10 Degrees warmer. I had to use a supplemental pad and even then my arms got cold if they touched the hammock..

That was my primary reason for not purchasing one..

"dirt"

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Insulating your hammock can be a real personal pain in the rear to figure out. Or, if you look at the other side of the coin... lots of planned backyard camp outs.
I know I've camped in warmer temps and been colder than I should have been. And I've camped in colder temps with the exact same gear and been warmer. I've learned that for me, it's been user error. I found out that I was leaving the under quilt to loose and allowing air gaps.:eek:

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Originally Posted by TinaLouise

Insulating your hammock can be a real personal pain in the rear to figure out. Or, if you look at the other side of the coin... lots of planned backyard camp outs.
I know I've camped in warmer temps and been colder than I should have been. And I've camped in colder temps with the exact same gear and been warmer. I've learned that for me, it's been user error. I found out that I was leaving the under quilt to loose and allowing air gaps.:eek:

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I opted to use the Hammock as recomended actually. I did not take an UQ, But instead opted to as they have it on there website and use items of clothing and gear to fill the pockets under me. It was no where close to being warm enough to sleep. I am not passing judgement on Clark or there products, just didnt work for me. I was in the process of finding a lighter hammock and was weighing the options of no UQ as a way to make the overall kit being lighter.

That is my expeirience only... yours may vary drastically.

"dirt"

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Originally Posted by TinaLouise

the clark web site says you need the z-liner to take it to 32 degrees.

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According to Bradley's quote above, the Z-liner is for temps below 32F and will add another 20F to your system. This means it should be good for 12F-32F.

Maybe neo, blood of antifreeze, could do it! :jj:

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Originally Posted by Just Jeff

According to Bradley's quote above, the Z-liner is for temps below 32F and will add another 20F to your system. This means it should be good for 12F-32F.

Maybe neo, blood of antifreeze, could do it! :jj:

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I would be a popsicle at those temps with the z-liner:scared:
Maybe some of those guys that live up in alaska might be ok?? Like you said, antifreeze for blood. Clark had to have tested it with the hottest warmest sleeping person they could find.

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Originally Posted by TinaLouise

the clark web site says you need the z-liner to take it to 32 degrees.
Anytime I've camped with my Tropical, I always have under quilts with me, for just in case!!! I'm a cold sleeper so I don't need for the temps to drop by much before I need an UQ. At 32 degrees, I'm already using my winter UQ!!! My friend with the NA can usually go a few degrees colder than I can before needing her UQ. For me, I need an UQ at about 74 or lower. She doesn't need one till like 69 or lower.

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Those are about the temps (probably closer to the 69) where I need to add a (very) little something to my non Clark hammocks, depending on wind and rain/humidity. That is, hammocks that have NO POCKETS underneath. Or, just laying on a synthetic bag will get me through temps like those. But people vary so much. If I could ever get my wife to try sleeping in a hammock, I bet she would be much like you.

For clarification: you and your friend need an UQ added to the Clarks at about 69-74? What temp do you suppose you would be comfy at with a non-Clark? Because, like in my case, that sounds like about the temps where most folks need to add a little something. So how much extra warmth do you actually think you might be getting out of those Clarks?

If you would need something at 80F(unlikely for most folks seems to me), then you would only be getting about 6*F extra from the pockets.

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Originally Posted by BillyBob58

Those are about the temps (probably closer to the 69) where I need to add a (very) little something to my non Clark hammocks, depending on wind and rain/humidity.

If I could ever get my wife to try sleeping in a hammock, I bet she would be much like you.

For clarification: you and your friend need an UQ added to the Clarks at about 69-74?

What temp do you suppose you would be comfy at with a non-Clark?

So how much extra warmth do you actually think you might be getting out of those Clarks?

.

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What I've noticed from reading posts here is that most guys tend to sleep a bit warmer than females. Me and the other two people I camp with the clarks are female and we all tend to sleep cold and need more insulation. I've got two other scouters here, adult males, that have clarks and they don't seem to use as much insulation as we females do.

Yes, I need my UQ (summer one, it's about 12oz. single layer thin climashield) at about 74 degrees. My friend will use a military poncho liner when it gets to about 69 degrees. She can continue to use that poncho liner way longer (as the temps drop) than I can use my summer UQ. I will be already using my winter UQ (down, 5" baffles, overstuffed!!!) while she's still got the poncho liner and is stuffing extra clothes into those Clark pockets.

My Clark Tropical is just like my Grand Truck hammock in the warmth arena. I need just as much insulation in either. Remember that my pockets are spaced really far apart and I'm short!! Most of my body is between those pockets and the bottom of the hammock is just a single layer of material. When I've tried out my friends NA in the summer, no insulation on either. My hammock is cool, her's felt very warm on my backside. I could only stay in her's for a short time before I was too warm and had to get out. I personally don't know how she stood it when we were camping this year at Summer Camp Boy Scouts, when the temps were 107, dropping to high 80's at night. I think she used a fan all night long and I only had to run my fan a few minutes before I was cooled down and would turn it off.

My conclusion is that the pockets do hold in heat and do reflect the wind. Not a lot but some. They are handy for putting stuff and if you put clothes in them, you do hold in more heat. The person using the hammock will have to determine just how much benifit they get though.

No way could I get below 60 without something added in the Clark NA unless it was totally windless. I've been out in as low as 25* (overnight low) and that REQUIRED a good, fluffy, underquilt and a 20* sleeping bag. At those temps the pockets having anything in them works a bit against you by creating voids in the under insulation and making cold spots all around the edges of the pockets.

My legs would freeze into cramped-up ice if I tried to get into the low 50's with just the pockets insulated. Now I do think the Clark NA has features that make it more winter friendly. The weathersheild is a big one. Huge difference in interior warmth and also not having cold air sinking right into your face. You'll notice the difference right quick when you unzip and step out. The pockets do add warmth because it gets hot on my back even on cool afternoons and you can feel the difference in a breeze between the legs and the torso.

My experience is:

75 and up - Nothing really needed but a top sheet.
65 to 70 - A fleece blanket under me and a sheet.
55 to 65 - Summer underquilt and summer sleeping bag, fleece blanket.
40 to 55 - Heavy underquilt and summer sleeping bag or top quilt. weathershield.
25 to 40 - Winter underquilt and sleeping bag. weathershield.

I don't think I could keep my feet warm after 25 and just barely tolerable for me at that temp. That is my breaking point. If my feet get cold and the cramping starts then there is no sleeping. For dead of winter camping... like Doe season here in MO I will usually still take a tent. Easier to keep the feet warm at night. I won't go backpacking in winter only car camping at the most.