Video : A Hardware Free Detachable Hammock Suspension
With the flurry of posts on ways of connecting up suspension systems, I got to thinking about how to bring together whoopie slings, a structural ridgeline, and cord-based attachment of the hammock ends in such a way that the hammock can be clipped on and off easily. Naturally, soft shackle ideas are at the heart of it----instead of making an SMC ring or biner of some heritage the central connecting point, you make a diamond knot the central connecting point. You can pull out all the stops and make a complete strap-to-strap system doing this (i.e. "All in one" suspension), without using metal anywhere.
There is no compelling reason to do this, it's just a fun system to cook up for the individual who likes to build gear, and likes the esthetics of splicing and using spliced systems.
In a bid to create the most awkward acronym yet for a suspension system, I dub this the Hardware Free Detachable Hammock Suspension (HFDHS).
If you don't have 15 minutes to kill on a video, the idea is simple and obvious---when you make your whoopie slings, put a diamond knot at the end rather than a fixed eye. That knot serves as a jam for a continuous cord loop that is girth hitched onto the hammock end, and has a special sliding knot that closes off the loop at the diamond knot. The diamond knots work well also for jamming looped ends of an adjustable ridgeline.
OK, for those with time to kill...
06-06-2011, 06:17
BER
Very clever Grizz. Nicely laid out. I will need to come back to this when I get around to the suspension for Bridge 2.
06-06-2011, 07:00
tpkanu
Food for thought. Thanks for sharing.
Happy Trails
06-06-2011, 07:02
Hawk-eye
Very clever Grizz ... very clever indeed.
06-06-2011, 07:10
BER
Still thinking while getting ready for work...
How strong do you think the slider knot is. For instance, if one were to use a single piece of amsteel for the suspension triangle of a bridge and used your slider knot at the apex, would that be strong enough for attaching over the diamond knot at the end of your whoopie? I haven't thought this through enough perhaps...
06-06-2011, 07:21
Bubba
That's pretty cool Grizz.
06-06-2011, 09:20
BlazeAway
Super ideas.
Thanks for sharing.
06-06-2011, 09:43
Old River Rat
Some great stuff there. I am going to incorporate the sliders on what I have now.
06-06-2011, 09:58
Dutch
Hardware Free what what what????????:confused:That's just crazy talk.
06-06-2011, 10:21
beep
Grizz, you have too much time on your hands!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:
06-06-2011, 11:06
dragon360
Very neat idea Grizz!
06-06-2011, 11:42
sswens
how neat. thanks for sharing now all i need is some time to tinker.
06-06-2011, 11:46
GrizzlyAdams
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpkanu
Food for thought. Thanks for sharing.
yes, this soft shackle stuff opens up possibilities in a number of ways...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk-eye
Very clever Grizz ... very clever indeed.
thanks, but I'd rather be hiking in the Gorge than making videos in my basement!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BER
Still thinking while getting ready for work...
How strong do you think the slider knot is. For instance, if one were to use a single piece of amsteel for the suspension triangle of a bridge and used your slider knot at the apex, would that be strong enough for attaching over the diamond knot at the end of your whoopie? I haven't thought this through enough perhaps...
The wraps will be strong enough, but with the angle of the suspension sides they'll be trying hard to tear the knot apart. Another challenge! The key will be the way the wrap is tied off....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
That's pretty cool Grizz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazeAway
Super ideas.
Thanks for sharing.
thanks guys
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old River Rat
Some great stuff there. I am going to incorporate the sliders on what I have now.
yep those sliders are handy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch
Hardware Free what what what????????:confused:That's just crazy talk.
I was going to call this the Dutch Free Suspension (DFS) but
a) all the computer people would confuse that with Depth First Search
b) your cult following would come after me.
No thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beep
Grizz, you have too much time on your hands!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon360
Very neat idea Grizz!
Long plane rides are good times to kick ideas around...I get a lot of time on airplanes...
06-06-2011, 11:55
flatline
cool stuff, i'll have to hone mt diamond knot skills.
Grizzle E. Adams... s u p e r genius !
06-06-2011, 13:22
OutandBack
Great video. Very easy to follow thank you.
06-06-2011, 14:43
gmcttr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch
Hardware Free what what what????????:confused:That's just crazy talk.
Hardware free at the expense of a whole lot of software. My hardware rarely causes problems, but from time to time my software still causes a crash.;)
Oh wait....sorry, I thought we were talking computers. Never mind.
06-06-2011, 15:31
Theo
And just when you thought it was safe to go out and hike.:scared:
Seriously, that is very interesting.
06-06-2011, 23:15
SmokeBait
Very good Grizz! You are the master of innovation my friend. Thanks for yet another very informative video.
06-07-2011, 01:59
ciphoto
Very nice work Griz... really like the idea of the lashing on the whoopie loop....
I'm going to be making some soft shackles out of zip-it to use on a tarp set up when I get home, and then got to thinking about making some from 7/64 amsteel to use in place of the toggle in my suspension set up. SO instead of the toggle in the MSH I'd use the soft shackle... I'm sure some has tried this, if so how did it work out?
06-07-2011, 08:36
Shug
Brilliant Grizz! You have really gotten quite splicey))))))) This is something I may take a stab at when my patience is back up and running.
Always good to see new and cool ideas presented in an easy to follow format.
Shug
06-07-2011, 09:11
tiredhiker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shug
Brilliant Grizz! You have really gotten quite splicey))))))) This is something I may take a stab at when my patience is back up and running.
Always good to see new and cool ideas presented in an easy to follow format.
Shug
I hope you are ok bud,,,
06-07-2011, 09:17
Shug
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiredhiker
I hope you are ok bud,,,
All good.....just busy!
06-07-2011, 09:30
tiredhiker
very nice, I like the idea of the whipping on the end of the whoopi sling so that it dosent release from the marlin spike knot.
06-07-2011, 09:37
tiredhiker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch
Hardware Free what what what????????:confused:That's just crazy talk.
oh no thats going to hurt
06-07-2011, 13:19
Knotty
Grizz - This is a splicer's (hammock) dream come true. Very creative.
06-07-2011, 15:40
GrizzlyAdams
Quote:
Originally Posted by flatline
cool stuff, i'll have to hone mt diamond knot skills.
I found it a bit intimating at first, but the key for me was the pattern shown in the wikipedia article, of the knot before the tails are brought around and then up. I make that pattern, and take out the slack inside, and then as the tails are brought around the knot goes from being flat to being round. Get that pattern right, and remember to bring each tail across the next standing end in its direction before pulling it through, and you've got a fairly foolproof way of tying that knot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutandBack
Great video. Very easy to follow thank you.
great, thanks. That's the point, make it understandable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcttr
Hardware free at the expense of a whole lot of software. My hardware rarely causes problems, but from time to time my software still causes a crash.;)
Oh wait....sorry, I thought we were talking computers. Never mind.
and both my hardware and software get to looking old and frumpy after a while...we have to keep those innovations going....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo
And just when you thought it was safe to go out and hike.:scared:
and when you can't hike, you can splice...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeBait
Very good Grizz! You are the master of innovation my friend. Thanks for yet another very informative video.
appreciate that. And if you can splice dynaglide quickly (as you must be able to do by now), you are a Jedi master of splicing. I have the hardest time getting the core of dynaglide opened up for a yarn needle, or loop turner, or guitar string....I can splice up 7/64" Amsteel about 3 times faster than dynaglide...but the dynaglide is so kool....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciphoto
Very nice work Griz... really like the idea of the lashing on the whoopie loop....
I'm going to be making some soft shackles out of zip-it to use on a tarp set up when I get home, and then got to thinking about making some from 7/64 amsteel to use in place of the toggle in my suspension set up. SO instead of the toggle in the MSH I'd use the soft shackle... I'm sure some has tried this, if so how did it work out?
The stiffness of a toggle keeps the webbing folded around it in the MSH from collapsing, and that uncollapsed bit keeps the loop from sliding off. So I would be surprised if replacing a stiff toggle with a limp bit of cord would do the job. So surprise me!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shug
Brilliant Grizz! You have really gotten quite splicey))))))) This is something I may take a stab at when my patience is back up and running.
Always good to see new and cool ideas presented in an easy to follow format.
Shug
yep I'm a splicing fool. Probably was a sailor in a past life...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiredhiker
very nice, I like the idea of the whipping on the end of the whoopi sling so that it dosent release from the marlin spike knot.
Yep, that's a keeper. I've been doing it for just about as long as I've been using whoopie slings because that dang loop kept falling off the MSH when I was setting things up!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotty
Grizz - This is a splicer's (hammock) dream come true. Very creative.
Thanks Knotty. If this is a splicer's dream come true, maybe we splicers ought to work on expanding our social horizons a little :scared:
06-07-2011, 17:10
Tenaya
Quote:
Originally Posted by BER
Still thinking while getting ready for work...
How strong do you think the slider knot is. For instance, if one were to use a single piece of amsteel for the suspension triangle of a bridge and used your slider knot at the apex, would that be strong enough for attaching over the diamond knot at the end of your whoopie? I haven't thought this through enough perhaps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams
The wraps will be strong enough, but with the angle of the suspension sides they'll be trying hard to tear the knot apart. Another challenge! The key will be the way the wrap is tied off....
What if instead of a continuous loop with a sliding whip knot below the apex, you did a straight length of cord to form the suspension triangle, with the cord ends at the apex? You could then have eyes on both ends, both with whip knots, and loop both eyes over the diamond knot?
I'm still learning about bridge suspensions. Is there an advantage to a single line for the triangle as opposed to two separate matched cords attached to the hammock?
Edit: Actually, I just rewatched Grizz's "The Making of a GrizzBridge part three (Gone Loopy)" video. What if you did two separate cords with eyes on each end? Would it be reasonably easy enough to make them the same length? And Grizz, would you recommend using the type of eye you did in the video for attaching to the soft shackles near the hammock, or would you use the new whip knot eye for both ends of each cord?
06-07-2011, 17:15
JohnSawyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch
Hardware Free what what what????????:confused:That's just crazy talk.
So, Grizz is becoming the anti-Dutch...
06-07-2011, 17:22
Bubba
With all the talk about knots derating amsteel, is there a reason to be concerned?
I've use soft shackles with no problems so I'm not particularly worried but others may be. I just made a couple things you showed and found it very fun to fiddle.
06-07-2011, 17:55
Dutch
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSawyer
So, Grizz is becoming the anti-Dutch...
I just don't think we should be encouraging him. We started hardware free, it was called Hennessy suspension.
06-07-2011, 19:18
GrizzlyAdams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenaya
What if instead of a continuous loop with a sliding whip knot below the apex, you did a straight length of cord to form the suspension triangle, with the cord ends at the apex? You could then have eyes on both ends, both with whip knots, and loop both eyes over the diamond knot?
yep. That'd work.
Quote:
I'm still learning about bridge suspensions. Is there an advantage to a single line for the triangle as opposed to two separate matched cords attached to the hammock?
The main thing for me is that I can get the two sides almost exactly the same length when I have one piece, by moving the lark's head that joins it at the middle. Takes more measurement and care to make two cord exactly the same length. One approach is something TeeDee did I think, to finish the hammock ends of those cords in whoopie slings to make it adjustable.
Quote:
...And Grizz, would you recommend using the type of eye you did in the video for attaching to the soft shackles near the hammock, or would you use the new whip knot eye for both ends of each cord?
I'll stick to the old way at that place. The slider makes it easier to separate hammock and suspension, but I rarely do that on a bridge hammock. And that pass through eye is trivial to make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSawyer
So, Grizz is becoming the anti-Dutch...
So maybe me and Dutch are the ying and yang of hammocking.
better still, Twiddle Dum and Twiddle Dumber :cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
With all the talk about knots derating amsteel, is there a reason to be concerned?
I've use soft shackles with no problems so I'm not particularly worried but others may be. I just made a couple things you showed and found it very fun to fiddle.
Others have made this point before but it bears repeating. Most diameters of this cord are really strong,---50% of 2000 lb test is plenty strong enough. I'm not too concerned about knots in a suspension made of 1/8" Amsteel, at all. 7/64" is weaker, but I still put knots in it. Dynaglide only starts at about 1000 lb, and so degrading takes one there into fewer digits of test strength than I want to routinely trust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch
I just don't think we should be encouraging him. We started hardware free, it was called Hennessy suspension.
shucks, you ain't seen nuthin' yet. For my next trick I'm going to make a pack-free hammocking system. Ha! You don't think so??? Why I'll just make my hammock so you can dual use it as a pack. So there! ;)
06-07-2011, 19:59
tiredhiker
Hey Grizz,
What kind of string do you use to make the whipping ends on the continuous shackle,and on the end of the whoopi sling?
06-07-2011, 23:24
GrizzlyAdams
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiredhiker
Hey Grizz,
What kind of string do you use to make the whipping ends on the continuous shackle,and on the end of the whoopi sling?
That's 1.75 mm diameter Lash-It, by Sampson.
06-07-2011, 23:46
tiredhiker
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams
That's 1.75 mm diameter Lash-It, by Sampson.
Thanks grizz.
tiredhiker
12-15-2011, 19:07
SweetLou
I've been messing around with the HFDHS and wanted to remove all hardware. In other words, remove the "marlin spike".
Right now, I have a loop of amsteel with a double diamond knot. From here, I attach the ridge line and the suspension whoopie. Around the trees, I have some huggers. I just needed to find a way to remove the "marlin spike" and to attach the whoopies and still have them removable.
I thought that I could tie a diamond not to the end of the whoopie: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c...2/albright.jpg
This works well, I can just run the huggers through the loop. This works well. Except the attachment point is not adjustable. So, I thought about using a hedden knot and I can slide the diamond knot to where I want it: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-B...512/hedden.jpgThis isn't bad. But after a test hand tonight, I found the hedden tightened a lot and was a bit difficult to move. After a bit of fudging the knot, I got it loose enough that I could position it where I want it.
Then I thought about using a knot that I could use instead of the loops in the huggers. I wanted a knot that would be easy to tie around the tree, strong and easy to remove. I wanted something I could wrap the whoopie around. I found the Kalmyk. With this knot, I can do a couple of things. I can either place the whoopie over the knot, I can put the huggers through the whoopie's adjustable loop or I can keep the albright loop knot on the end. I can then tie the Kalmyk so that the diamond knot is where I want it.
I played with this idea tonight. Tying the Kalmyk was easy. It held my weight and even more important, when I went to remove it, I just pulled on the slipped line and it came undone. I forgot to test this knot with the whoopie attached directly to it instead of the hedden or the albright knots.
But, I think I like the idea of using the huggers with an albright knot, with the huggers going through its own loop. But being able to tie the Kalmyk if the tree makes it so that the exit line is too long.
I need to make new huggers. The ones I have now have loops on both ends which makes the last couple of inches rigid and not as adjustable with the Kalmyk. I only want the loop on one side of the hugger with the other side being free with an albright at the end.
12-16-2011, 08:10
GrizzlyAdams
SweetLou---thanks for posting, I had to look up the Kalmyk. Interesting knot with a mysterious history!
12-16-2011, 11:37
SweetLou
There's not much out there about the Kalmyk. It took me some time to find a way to tighten the knot and keep it tight around the tree. I like my huggers to wrap the tree, not just around the tree. Does that make sense?
Basically, what I do is tie the knot loosely, then using my right middle finger, I pull more of the webbing around the tree. Then I pull on this with my left hand making the slipped part bigger. Once it is tight against the tree, I just tighten away.
The one thing to be careful about is to make sure the slipped part has long enough legs, otherwise it can pull through. I've practiced this knot with amsteel, then moved on to webbing. I haven't had a full night of hanging with this knot, just short little test hangs but I haven't had it jam yet.
I actually found this knot while looking for a knot to use as the marlin spike hitch. One to tie into the webbing to hook my whoopies around but as easily to remove as the MSH. I haven't found one yet, but I think this might be a good alternative.
I've been looking at ABOK wrt the Kalmyk knot and I am of the opinion that it is not in the ABOK - the one that comes closest is probably #1033, a Carrick Loop - looking at the structure of the Kalmyk knot it appears to be based on one of the single carrick bends but I have not yet gone and figured out which one
I've been looking at ABOK wrt the Kalmyk knot and I am of the opinion that it is not in the ABOK...
And that is probably why it isn't as well known.
Since I have learned this knot, it has become one of my favorites to create a loop that I want to remove later around something. It has never become difficult to untie. I have used it in a versatackle with success. For an end of line loop, I use a double dragon but I have used the Kalmyk for this also.
12-25-2011, 16:11
Les Rust
Grizz, I love the slider/stoppers--put two on the whoopie slings on the hammock I gave my daughter for Christmas and will put them on my own whoopies from now on--great piece of work that serves multiple purposes.
I tried to download the Ashley Book of Knots from the link here but it said that it had been removed. is there anywhere else to get this on the internet?
thanks, all, and Happy Holidays.
12-25-2011, 18:17
DavyRay
Google Books has a decent preview of this. The ABOK is 600 pages. That would quite a PDF. Most of the information is online in piecemeal form. The book in print is pricey.
06-21-2012, 07:45
alrany187
Sorry if breathing life back into this thread bothers anyone, but I only found it about a month ago and ABSOLUTELY loved the idea. At that time I was putting together my DIY hammock and thought this would be a great opportunity to try the NHSS (No Hardware Suspension System, sorry grizz, your name for it was just too long) I retrofitted my whoopie slings by tying a cobra knot through the fixed loop. I then made 2 12' dogbones with an adjustable loop at one end.
The dogbones were then larksheaded around the hammock below the whipping with the adjustable loop free. In the picture, the pink cord is mason's line I use to help in opening the loop.
The SRL was made with adjustable loops at both ends so it would go over the cobra knot and then tighten down. With zip knots on the adjustable loop of the whoopie sling, it was a very secure system.
I have a friend who always has difficulty with the marlin spike hitch and I showed him the zip knot trick and how it secures the whoopie sling to the MSH. I think he'll be using it from now on also.
If anyone is interested in retrofitting the whoopie sling with a cobra knot, let me know and I'll post pics or a video.
Regards,
Ellis
06-21-2012, 11:13
c0wb0y_hubs
Grizz, awesome video!
In the last part you mentioned tying a diamond knot in the fixed loop end of the suspension whoopie sling. Is this knot a replacement for the Locked Brummel Loop? Then, you just bury the remaining loose end?
Thanks
06-21-2012, 11:46
burleyolebear
Tied to the whipping knot...
Is it just me or does anyone else hear the Allman Brothers Band in their head every time Grizz says "...tied to the whipping knot..."?
06-26-2012, 18:58
GrizzlyAdams
Quote:
Originally Posted by c0wb0y_hubs
Grizz, awesome video!
In the last part you mentioned tying a diamond knot in the fixed loop end of the suspension whoopie sling. [b] Is this knot a replacement for the Locked Brummel Loop? [b]
yep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by c0wb0y_hubs
Then, you just bury the remaining loose end?
not sure which loose end you're thinking of. The diamond knot takes two strands. One of them is the main body from the whoopie sling. The other is buried into it (with a locked brummel). The knot is tied and after the knot is well loaded a couple of times, the excess trimmed off and the ends melted.
06-26-2012, 20:32
c0wb0y_hubs
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams
yep.
not sure which loose end you're thinking of. The diamond knot takes two strands. One of them is the main body from the whoopie sling. The other is buried into it (with a locked brummel). The knot is tied and after the knot is well loaded a couple of times, the excess trimmed off and the ends melted.
Thanks so much for the explanation. I put in an order for my first DIY hammock and suspension, and I'm looking forward to making my whoopie slings. Your videos along with Shug's are really all one needs to get an undergrad in the art of hammocks.
08-19-2012, 23:02
dowilliamson
Thanks
Justed wanted to thank GrizzlyAdams for his video regarding the whipping not and the video clip about tying a diamond knot. I larks headed Amsteel line with a diamond knot to a gathered hem hammock and I attached my whoopies and ridgeline per your instructions in the HFDHS video. I used the whipping knot to secure the whoopies and the ARL to the diamond knot. Thank you. Thank you. I wanted to try a different suspension and it worked.
08-20-2012, 05:53
Loki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch
Hardware Free what what what????????:confused:That's just crazy talk.
hahaha :lol:
...how bout, instead of a stopper knot, a stinger :)
08-24-2012, 07:12
Mule
Wow, Grizz, great video, that fifteen minutes went by like a flash....Thanks