Couple Newbie Questions

Well someone is serving up the kool-aid cuz I am here lol. I blame Shug. I have never hung before but I am seriously looking into it as a way to lower my pack weight. I have a few questions and I know this is the place to ask them. So here goes.

Just to point out I am cheap...well I am married let's just say that. So dropping 200 bucks on a hammock when I have a tent already is not going to fly. But 20 bucks on a Grand Trunk Ultralight will work. So being 5' 10 and 200 pounds, will this thing hold my uncoordinated behind? Will it work into a winter setting with proper insulation? I understand that the suspension will need to be changed out to the whoopies or some such contraption. That is not a problem. But for 20 bucks I don't think I can get fabric to DIY it for less. I can DIY so when it comes to mods or the bug net I can probably pull that off too.

At what temp do you start needing an under quilt and will a pad do instead for certain temps when coupled with a pad extender to keep it in place?

I am sure I will have other questions along the way but hopefully this is a good way to be more comfortable and lower my shelter weight, currently at 5.5 pounds for a small tent. I have watched Shug's videos, in fact my 2 year old boy whooo buddys quite a bit. So I have some answers. Just need to get pointed in the right direction.

Thanks for the info.

Check out the FAQ's, articles, stickies etc... Most of your questions have been answered and can be found. I've posted a couple things that I used the search feature to find later--use it. I was in the same boat a little over a year ago. I find most of my answers without a thread. By the way welcome to your new addiction.

You'll be just fine. I have two cheap hammocks also and they sleep great. If you're handy with a sewing machine errrr..... thread injector then the sky's the limit. Welcome to the addiction.

The Grand Trunk Ultra Light(GTUL) should make a good starter hammock. Most move on to something different, like a bridge, Warbonnet Blackbird, Switchback, or a longer/wider DIY, but not always. If you do move on it would be around the time your son would need a hammock anyways. The GTUL should tell you all you need to know about hammocking.

I have found that the webbing with cinch buckles like these are the best for me; http://arrowheadequipment.webs.com/a...s/show/2575054 . Except if you're going ultra light, you may want to search whoopie slings.

I start feeling cool at 65F-70F without some instrumentation under me. If you're looking to be frugal, use your pad and sleeping bag(as a top quilt) that you already own for ground use, in your hammock,. You will also need a tarp.

As beast said, you can get by just fine with a pad and sleeping bag. I'd venture to say many people on here started out that way because they were in the same situation you are...not wanting to sink a few hundred bucks right out of the gate. Many people still use thier pads, because they haven't needed anything else. I started with a pad, and moved to an UQ pretty quickly simply because of condensation issues with my sweaty body.

How cold it will take you is a matter of how you sleep. I can go down to about 45 with nothing more than a sleeping bag, but I'm a hot sleeper, and not really the "norm" from what I can gather. A pad would easily take me into the 20s. If I had to pull out a number for "average", I'd say an SPE could take most people to 35ish.

For the record, any hammock that will hold your weight (GT is fine) will work in a winter setting with proper insulation. The tarp is what takes a little more getting used to. You'll have to concern yourself with wind more than flat ground in the winter, but hung low with tyvek doors, my tarp is just as windproof as my 3-season tent.

Welcome to the club!

I bought a Grand Trunk UL as my first hammock and personally found it too narrow for me and returned it. I am about your size 5'11" and 210lbs. I instead got a ENO DoubleNest and feel a lot more comfortable in that. I felt as though I was always about to fall out of the GTUL. My son sleeps great in his though he is just over 5feet and 100lbs. :)

Thanks for the info guys. I have been going round and round on the Grand Trunk Ultralight vs the skeeter beeter or the ENO stuff. Quite a bit to take in, and I hate buying the wrong thing from the get go. I will take a peek at the doublenest again. Bit more than the ultralight but based on some reviews seems a bit sturdier, although a bit more in weight. What is the "best" typical size for a tarp? 10x10? I am guessing a full square is a allows for better pitch options than say a rectangle.

The generally-accepted minimum for most tarps is the length of the hammock plus a foot. It's probably better if it's plus two feet (and how sharply the tarp tapers at the ends plays a large role in this, too).

There are three major styles of tarps: rectangular, hexagonal, and asymmetric diamond shaped.

Rectangular tarps are the simplest as far as design goes; the advantage here is total coverage. If you get one that is long enough and has the proper tie-outs, you can close off the end corners into "doors" that will block wind and precipitation. The wind-blocking comes into play the most during the winter, which makes these types of tarps popular with those camping in cold weather.

Hexagonal tarps are just rectangular tarps that have had their corners cut off. These types of tarps are a compromise between weight/bulk and coverage. They tend to give good coverage to a hammock (since the hammock tapers towards the ends, it needs less coverage there), while saving weight. The downside is that you can't close off the ends without additional equipment (though a poncho and some line fixes this right neatly, in my experience).

Asymmetrical diamond tarps are as minimalist as it gets. They're generally the lightest tarps out there, reducing pack volume at the same time. They're hung with the long axis running the length of the hammock and the short axis across the hammock, usually with the points at left shoulder and right knee to allow one to lay asymmetrically in the hammock and still have overhead coverage. These can be used in extreme weather (Sgt. Rock has a story about hanging in a hurricane with one of these), but require skill to set up well enough to avoid being wet under such circumstances.

So, really, what you need to balance is how much coverage you need versus how heavy a pack you're willing to carry.

I started out with a DIY hammock with ripstop nylon from the local fabric store. If you're good with the machine perhaps you could find a deal/discount/clearance/coupon at your local fabric store. That project was a total of $21.33 with suspension, and used my sleeping bag for insulation (started hanging in summer so it was ok). This link from Just Jeff was helpful for me.

My first tarp was the $7 blue Walmart special (12x10 I think) with a few tie outs added with the machine. Just remember, it doesn't have to look pretty to begin with...it just has to work.

Later I added a few asym tie outs to the hammock and its been my go to for the last 9 months.

The first hammock is always the hardest decision to make because you don't want to "get the wrong thing." Honestly, I did rock-paper-scissors to decide:D

Edit: Watch the Shug Noob videos 4 or 5 times too. And check here.

I'm also new to hammocking but i might be able to help a bit!

I bought a GTUL a few months ago and so far it seems to be a perfect starter hammock. When first got it I had no complaints (Besides the suspension), but when i set it up and got in with my pad and sleeping bag i started to realize it's a little bit narrow and i had some trouble keeping my feet from slipping out of the hammock. But i was able to fix that problem pretty easily by playing with my ridgeline and just some more practice getting situated in the hammock. And although i wish the GT was a few inches wider it is still extremely comfortable not to mention an amazing deal!

If you are trying to bring down your pack weight i would HIGHLY recommend upgrading the heavy S rings and rope they use for the suspension to something like http://arrowheadequipment.webs.com/a...s/show/2575039. For me it seems like the perfect system, Light, and really easy. My hammock with this suspension system comes in at 13.8 oz and if i remember right (I could be way off I never wrote it down...) the stock GT weighs ~11oz. And that's without rope or tree straps..

Ohh, I'm 5' 10" 230# so the GT should have no problem supporting you.

Quite a bit to think about. I certainly like the idea of the tarp with doors. I have a cheap 11x13 poly tarp now that I can use. I think it weighs 2 pounds but with a hammock and suspension it is still going to drop 2 pounds of my shelter weight. With spring coming on I won't have to worry too much about insulation yet. I am worried about the nano being narrow as I start to look at the specs compared to the double nest. Although the double nest is 50 bucks and I could probably DIY for less than that lol. Too many **** decisions. Either way I think on the commercial side it is between those two. Having never slept in a hammock before I am not sure about the diagonal lay. I usually sleep on my back, although I am sure my wife would say differently.

I will have to swing by Walmart again and see if I can't find some ripstop nylon. I know I can get it at Joann's but I think it is like 6 bucks a yard. For DIY fabric I am looking for 1.7 or 1.9 correct? Or is that too heavy?

Warbonnet has a handy-dandy guide for occupant weight vs. comfort vs. fabric weight located here.

Honestly, one of the better ways to decide on a hammock is to go to a local hang and get a good look at everyone else's set ups. Most everybody will be willing to let you give their stuff a test-ride. Check out the Trip Planning forum here to see if one's in your area. With spring coming up for most of the nation, there should be one soon!

As far as the diagonal lay, it definitely helps with a flat sleep if you're a back sleeper (I am). My two issues (and this is only personal experience, so take it with a grain of salt) with hammocks are shoulder squeeze (I'm 6' and range in the 185 to 200 pound area depending on my workout schedule that month) and knee hyper extension. The shoulder squeeze is helped, for me, by having a hammock that is wide and long enough, while hanging it at a fairly loose angle. The knee hyper extension issue is helped by putting something underneath my knees (during the winter, this is my daytime clothing in a stuff sack; during the summer, I carry a small travel pillow) and hanging the foot end a little (four to eight inches) higher than the head end.

Your mileage may vary, though.

FLRider thanks for the info. Nice to know what things to look out for. Never slept in a hammock but I hear they are great. I am sure a few folks around here think that. I will either make one if I can find some cheap fabric or get that doublenest. Still have a few weeks of cold weather at least, so I have some time to get a kit together.

Welcome from West Tn. It sounds like you've done your homework. You'll get hooked on Hammock Forums if you don't watch it.

Happy Hangin'

A Treklight double is large and folds into its own pouch...quite small. You would need a separate bug net.

I paid $50 for mine ab 4 years ago. Check their website (lots of color options); here's one on ebay:

http://compare.ebay.com/like/1808241...Types&var=sbar

Well I was at walmart and got some fabric. $5.25 in total, so if it doesn't work out no big loss. I was going to run by the marine store and get some amsteel blue for whoopies, I hear they are all the rage :) How much length do I need?

I managed to get 2 nights in on my DIY hammock. Worked great, you guys suck :) I used an 11x9 poly tarp from Harbor Freight. Worked fine even with rain both nights. I was warm with my pad and sleeping bag. Temps got down to 47 the first night and 52 the second. I am certainly hooked. I used DIY harbor Freight tree straps and whoopie slings. Thanks for all the info, it worked out great. Even the floppy sides did not bother me.

BUT, there is always a but, I would like to change the tarp out. I ran in a diamond config, although a little skewed but the rectangleness. I would like to get a tarp that I can set up A frame style but also be able to close the doors if the wind gets bad or in the winter. My hammock is 10.5 feet long I guess, that is how much fabric I got. So would a 12x12 be long enough or would I need to do a larger rectangle? After the latest debacle with the Guide Gear tarps I was looking at the Chinook ones that are 12x9.6. Wondering if I would be better off with the 12x12 or even a 14x12, although that might be too heavy. So I need some advice here.

How about something like a Wilderness Logics Old Man Winter tarp?

Try this site out !http://www.buttinasling.com/gear these are awesome hammocks at a great price!

That tarp looks great but it is quite a bit out of my budget. I had looked at the guide gear and Chinooks because they were a bit cheaper and would be lighter and better sized than my cheap poly tarp. I can probably budget about 50-60 at most depending on the quality of the tarp. I am guessing it needs to be rectangle to do the doors so that will eliminate the kelty noahs correct?

Twelve by twelve should cover you and then some. Your ridgeline length on a 10' 6" hammock is going to be in the 8' 9" range. A 12' tarp would give you about a foot and an half clearance on either end of the hammock. As far as the width, I have the Hennessy Hex (twelve long by ten wide), and it's more than spacious.

Since you seem to be fairly handy with a sewing machine, have you considered doing a DIY tarp? A simple rectangle or square doesn't require tricky cutting, and there are several sources here on the board to consult for tarp basics. DIY Gear Supply has 1.1 sil as low as $5.50 a linear yard. Note that this stuff may have cosmetic imperfections in it. That being said, it's hard to beat the price.

I don't think this is the situation but just in case you care more about weight than just being enamored with comfort like the rest of us, ultimately hammocking is not the lightest way to roll. And it won't be lighter than a good tent set up ,that I assume you already own, without spending a good amount of cash. In the end especially if you wanna hang when its cold a hammock set up will be slightly heavyer than a ground set up. Now that being said I am not a grahm weenie and I would gladly bear the minimal addition of weight in exchange for the maximum addition of comfort and fun that a hammoc brings

That caviat aside. Go with the grand trunk you'll have fun and later on if you want to upgrade your hammock you'll have one for the wife or the kid. Put a pad in it put up the poly tarp you already have in a big rectangle and GO. You will upgrade all of your stuff but seeing as how you are a family man you won't upgrade it all at once. Going out and getting in the tree will let you know what you want to focus on first. If you are determined to have a bit nicer set up from the get go shell out for one of those complete setups from Hennesy. It can be crippling trying to figgure it all out at once from this forum. I also reccomend that you get Derek's book Ultimate Hang. It will help you out allot.

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Originally Posted by FLRider

Since you seem to be fairly handy with a sewing machine, have you considered doing a DIY tarp? A simple rectangle or square doesn't require tricky cutting, and there are several sources here on the board to consult for tarp basics. DIY Gear Supply has 1.1 sil as low as $5.50 a linear yard. Note that this stuff may have cosmetic imperfections in it. That being said, it's hard to beat the price.

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I have thought about making one but I am not sure i have the time before my next outing. My DIY plans right now are on a bug net so I figured I would buy a tarp. My poly tarp works but it doesn't give me the best coverage I think. I might have to look around for a 16x16 guide gear so I can get a 12x12 :)

http://www.bargainoutfitters.com/net...SE-BO-3-GOOGLE

Guide gear 12x12 twenty dollars. Just picked one up my self. You'll have to either do some sewing on it or get some grip clips from JRB, because there are no tieouts on the center edges of the tarp. Bur for that price you can't go wrong. I was going to get a big expensive sil nylon tarp for winter/weather coverage and then maybe one day get a lighter more portable hex tarp, but now I don't have to I eat it in weight a bit for the guide gear but it gets me out there and I have cash left over for my lighter duty tarp that I will probably want to use more often any ways. Unbelievable price a winter sized tarp for less than my nylon asym. Sorry geeking out.

still eyeballing the guide gear. The whole debacle over sizes and the non taped seams has me a little leery. It would be about 40 bucks with shipping to get the 16x16 which is really the 12x12 lol. The chinook 12x9.6 is about the same price shipped as well. I hear it has grommets though, is that still the case? So for 40 bucks those are the options. For 60 bucks is the BCUSA 10x10. Bit smaller but a nice tarp. not sure if I could do doors though like I was wanting. Any other cheaper tarps suggestions?

What is this whole thing about getting a 16x16 gear guide so that you can have a 12x12? What debacle? Because of the non taped seams? I'm assuming that you will seam seal the guide gear. How does non tapped seams transform a 16x16 into a 12x12? I'm confused.

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Originally Posted by Alanvalentinus

What is this whole thing about getting a 16x16 gear guide so that you can have a 12x12? What debacle? Because of the non taped seams? I'm assuming that you will seam seal the guide gear. How does non tapped seams transform a 16x16 into a 12x12? I'm confused.

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The sizes were misrepresented. The 16x16 is actually 11x11 with a 16 on the diamond. The 12x12 is actually 8.4x8.4 being 12 on the diamond. Big thread here on it http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...uide+gear+tarp Getting had by the measurements start a midway through.

The sizes are now noted on their site (too a lot of us complaining to get that done)...but the seams are not taped or seam sealed, so they've not corrected that part of the description as of yet.

Oh I did not know that. I just bought an 8x8 tarp? I'm pissed.

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Originally Posted by Alanvalentinus

Oh I did not know that. I just bought an 8x8 tarp? I'm pissed.

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Sorry, but yes, it is 8.4x8.4 12 on the diamond. Actual measurements are listed in the description now (not in red anymore, but it's there), and some of the reviews state it too.

If you've just ordered, call them before they ship it out and have them upgrade you to the 16x16....which will actually be 11x11 (these are also not cat cut or seam sealed so you'll have to seam seal it and reinforce the tie outs). They're not anything like the original quality of the Guide Gear tarps. Good luck.

the more i think about it I should just wait on the tarp and get something like a kelty noah 12x12 it is only about 20 bucks more than the chinook 12x9. too many options lol

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Originally Posted by DivaB

Sorry, but yes, it is 8.4x8.4 12 on the diamond. Actual measurements are listed in the description now (not in red anymore, but it's there), and some of the reviews state it too.

If you've just ordered, call them before they ship it out and have them upgrade you to the 16x16....which will actually be 11x11 (these are also not cat cut or seam sealed so you'll have to seam seal it and reinforce the tie outs). They're not anything like the original quality of the Guide Gear tarps. Good luck.

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what do you mean reinforce the tie outs? sew them on tighter or just pitch them tighter. I would expect to have to seam seal it. suck on them btw.

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Originally Posted by Spiffyguy

the more i think about it I should just wait on the tarp and get something like a kelty noah 12x12 it is only about 20 bucks more than the chinook 12x9. too many options lol

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you know the more I look at it the more I want to save up for one of Brian's tarps now that he is back in business.

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Originally Posted by Alanvalentinus

you know the more I look at it the more I want to save up for one of Brian's tarps now that he is back in business.

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Who's Brian? :)

sorry he is the man behind Outdoor Equipment Supplier. He makes the best cat cut tarps out there and he was out of business until very recently. when I decided to upgrade to a silnylon tarp his was the one I chose only he was at that time just stopping to make tarps. Now that he is up and running again, and Im getting my money back from the guide gear debacle, Im getting a tarp from him like I always wanted to.

http://outdoorequipmentsupplier.com/

I just got one of the guide gear tarps I ordered. one that is fantasticly smaller than I judged. I was thinking of sending it back but it might make a nice little diamond tarp. the wierd thing was. It came with a tent stake bag with a couple cheap stakes and some guy line...cool didnt know that was coming with, but the tent stake bag was powder pink and it said princess all over it. maybe that is why the price was so low hahaha.

I kinda want to keep it more now, hahahahaha

Someone else mentioned a pink princess stake bag. I thought it was a thing they had, did not realize they were coming with the tarp. That is too funny. Right now I am leaning towards a Kelty Noah 12 for a tarp. it is 2 pounds but seems like a fairly well built tarp and 60 bucks is not too bad of a price. It will certainly beat my cheap poly tarp. I am almost done with a DIY bug net, making it in a way that I can set it up like a bug tent if I had to be on the ground. Fun project.

If you are an REI member, you could use your dividends from last year's purchases and the 20% off of one item to purchase your Kelty tarp. I had mine shipped to one of their stores and got free shipping. Just a thought. cheers!

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Originally Posted by harrellt

If you are an REI member, you could use your dividends from last year's purchases and the 20% off of one item to purchase your Kelty tarp. I had mine shipped to one of their stores and got free shipping. Just a thought. cheers!

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I blew my 20% on a pair of five fingers lol. But I have been looking at the kelty. For 60 bucks it seems a pretty good deal. I need to weigh in (pun intended ) on the cost vs weight when compared to other tarps. I set up my hammock again for a test of my bugnet and used my 11x9 poly tarp in an A frame. The coverage was not bad but I definitely need the 12 foot length.

I have been looking at some other possibilities that are more expensive. The Warbonnet Superfly looks nice at 19 oz but it is twice the cost of the Kelty, But the kelty is twice the weight. You can shed ounces but you shed money too lol. Also pricing out a 12x10 BSUSA tarp, which is a nicer color than the kelty. I would lose a little side coverage but it might be a good option too. Too many options of size and weight. Hate to spend 60 bucks and curse a year later about having a brick in my pack. Although the kelty is certainly lighter than my poly tarp.

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Originally Posted by Spiffyguy

I blew my 20% on a pair of five fingers lol. But I have been looking at the kelty. For 60 bucks it seems a pretty good deal. I need to weigh in (pun intended ) on the cost vs weight when compared to other tarps. I set up my hammock again for a test of my bugnet and used my 11x9 poly tarp in an A frame. The coverage was not bad but I definitely need the 12 foot length.

I have been looking at some other possibilities that are more expensive. The Warbonnet Superfly looks nice at 19 oz but it is twice the cost of the Kelty, But the kelty is twice the weight. You can shed ounces but you shed money too lol. Also pricing out a 12x10 BSUSA tarp, which is a nicer color than the kelty. I would lose a little side coverage but it might be a good option too. Too many options of size and weight. Hate to spend 60 bucks and curse a year later about having a brick in my pack. Although the kelty is certainly lighter than my poly tarp.

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I know I mentioned this above, but...

Just to throw it out there, Hennessy makes a 12 x 10 PU-coated hex tarp that's 23 oz before lines. They charge $70 before shipping, so not a bad deal.

I've used it in both fair and pouring monsoon weather on and off for about nine months now and not been disappointed. I think I've spent about seven or eight nights in rain ranging from sprinkles to "if I wasn't two miles from the nearest shelter right now...", mostly toward the upper range of that (there's a reason that FL is the lightning-strike capitol of the US). It's just now needing a bit of seam sealing over the factory taping on the ridgeline (I had a few intermittent drips last week with my wife when I threw it up over our four-man tent).

I have not looked at the Hennessy stuff yet. Can you close up a hex tent to create "doors" like you can on a rectangle? I plan on using it in the winter too and wanted that feature to keep out snow.

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Originally Posted by Spiffyguy

I have not looked at the Hennessy stuff yet. Can you close up a hex tent to create "doors" like you can on a rectangle? I plan on using it in the winter too and wanted that feature to keep out snow.

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Not really, no. You'd have to add Grizz beaks or doors to the tarp to do that (though, if they're removable, you don't have to carry the extra weight when you don't want it). You can use a poncho for that; I did a video a while back on it. If you want, I can post it here.

I believe I have watched that video now that I think about it. I watch a bit too much youtube at work lol. But I find youtube educational. I went out and hung my hammock and tarp yesterday. Messed with me DIY bug net too, it needs work. The 11 foot is long enough but I think the 12 will be a lot better. I am making a list of prices and weights. Over analyzing it I am sure, but I have found better to spend once. So got to compare value to weight ratios lol part of the fun I guess.