Was cold with Incubator

Ok, I've got the new 2.0 full length HG incubator 20f with a 1oz overstuff, I was also using a Kelty Cosmic 20f down bag. The area was a bit windy and didn't setup the tarp, temps were down to about 32-35.

I was kind of chilly, started out with cotton pants, t-shirt, polypro neck warmer and a took; later added wool long sleeve shirt. My core was doing ok after the wool but my legs kept getting cold. I was colder when I curled in a ball, I'm assuming the down got compressed when I did that. I had the kelty out on top of me like a top quilt I didn't zip it up.

I clipped the s clips to the whoopie and it looked like it wasn't too tight and there weren't any gaps at the end due to the 2nd set of suspension being tight across the hammock ends.

My buddy was using a 0degree synthetic and a thermarest in a grand trunk... He has maybe $200 in his entire setup and I've got what should be a primo setup and was cold... This has to be user error right?

The incubator is a differential cut underquilt, so unless you installed it inside out, then it would be really hard to compress the down.

Sometimes it pays to have someone else look at your underquilt while you're in the hammock and check for gaps. Most underquilts need to be strung quite snug such that the underquilt actually lifts the hammock when it's empty.

Hope this helps.

Brian

I'm going to go with cold legs due to cotton pants, and overall cold because of no tarp and wind.

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Originally Posted by BrianWillan

...so unless you installed it inside out...

.....Most underquilts need to be strung quite snug such that the underquilt actually lifts the hammock when it's empty....

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This and this. Those are your starting points to check. If these are OK...block the wind.

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Originally Posted by BrianWillan

The incubator is a differential cut underquilt, so unless you installed it inside out, then it would be really hard to compress the down.

Sometimes it pays to have someone else look at your underquilt while you're in the hammock and check for gaps. Most underquilts need to be strung quite snug such that the underquilt actually lifts the hammock when it's empty.

Hope this helps.

Brian

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I fund that this is the best course of action. With my 3/4 DIY UQ, I can curl into a ball no problem and the quilt conforms to the ball, but not so with my full length. I had somebody watch and help me adjust. When I go into a ball with the full length, I get big enough gaps at the head and foot ends that my warmth goes away.

What they said....... the quilt should BE tight, and if you had wind, and no way to block it, then you got double hit. Hope the next time is better. I had a little CBS and found that I had to really tighten the suspension.....RR

I would recommend tightening the main suspension so that it lifts the hammock when empty. I have found that you can't really get it too tight, you want it snug against your back. The ends can sometimes be overtightened, this is a good place to have a friend check while your in the hammock. All that being said WIND can easily rob the warmth from your UQ. A pad is not effected by wind to the same degree.

Also, make sure it's oriented properly. The end with the HG logo should be at your head.

hey there...i have the incubator 20* too...the first time i used it i wasn't cold but not toasty warm...and this was due to a few 'user' mistakes. the temps were only low 40's. i wore way too many clothes. i didn't have the quilt dialed in well.

The second outing i took my gear into the whites where the temps got down into the upper 30's. I spent the entire weekend toasty warm after having tightened up suspension...made sure there was no gaps between bottom of hammock and the quilt...don't fear tightening to this point. you wont compress the down. There was very little wind so that wasn't a problem. I shed down to the bare minimum, shorts, wool shirt, one pair of socks. This helped a great deal in retaining heat.

My third attempt was in my yard at 20 degrees for the low. I really wanted to test the rating and if needs be to bail if i had to. I had my brother lay in the hammock and dialed it in using the secondary suspension. I think the main suspension is ok but unless you plan on moving the quilt higher or lower on the hammock i find the secondary suspension works better. Once it was cinched in i climbed in around nine that night with just wind pants wool shirt balaclava socks and was really warm. Not sweaty warm but very comfortable. Teh only time i was cold was when i had to go to the bathroom. and after getting back in the hammock it only took a few minutes to warm up again.
When i woke up in the morning my UQP was coated in frost...so was the edges of my hammock and bug netting was pretty much stiff. But i remained toasty warm.

The thing with hammocking is alot of it is technical. If one area of your sleep system is off then it throws everything off balance. Toomuch clothes means heat loss. Wind factors in too. Quilt not dialed in, CBS for sure. It's all trial and error for us newbies to hanging. But so far its well worth it. Sleep better, feel better in the morning. You actually look forward to getting to sleep lol. Cant' say that about a tent.
Just keep plugging along...research the site for clothing too...i found that's really important. Too much means colder nights...odd i know but its true.

I got my incubator a couple years ago so I'm not sure how much it has changed. I used it for about six months thinking it was cool. Then I cranked the shock cord tight and was all like "wow, it feels like its plugged in."

Too many clothes does NOT make one colder. Restrictive clothing makes one colder.

It does not matter whether your insulation comes from more clothing or more down in a quilt, it provides more insulation. However, not using that insulation correctly can have negative effects as is the case with clothing which restricts blood flow. As is the case with a quilt with extra down pulling it away from the hammock bottom.

A snug quilt and loose clothing will be warmer than any combination of of less optimal conditions.

I slept out with my Inc 20 last night in central IL. High wind and temps in low 50's(yes, 50s). I had to cinch the main suspension a little tighter, but once I did, I was really warm. I had to strip down to undies, tee shirt and socks and boy was I toasty. In the middle of the night, I kicked off the foot end of the TQ and wind blew right up my legs and chilled my spine. I got up and checked the whole UQ, could not fine any gaps...then when I got back in I relaized what had happened. I tucked my feet in the foot box and slept thru til the hunters started(around 5 am).

I'm just back from trying my 20*F incubator out in 0*C and some wind. Granted, I did not sleep in the hammock, I just laid down, but I wouldn't have needed anything but the sleeping bag liner on top to fall asleep, if that. I could just feel the warmth and snugness from below. In fact, I'm surprised I made it back without dozing! :D So my bet is on gaps somewhere or that it's hangning too loose.

Check your ends to make sure they are not cinched too tight. I had my phoenix out this weekend and got a chilly back in 40deg. As it turns out I had mine too snug and it was keeping the quilt from snugging up to the hammock. I'm not sure if this happens with the incubator. Worth a check.

How tall are you? I am six four and have learned that the incubator doesnt work the greatest for me. I starting using the phoenix and burrow with sewn foot box and have not even needed a pad yet!I did get the phoenix with the extra baffle to eliminate slipping when I toss and turn. But that seemed to fix the problem for me.

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Originally Posted by gordonfreeman

Ok, I've got the new 2.0 full length HG incubator 20f with a 1oz overstuff, I was also using a Kelty Cosmic 20f down bag. The area was a bit windy and didn't setup the tarp, temps were down to about 32-35.

I was kind of chilly, started out with cotton pants, t-shirt, polypro neck warmer and a took; later added wool long sleeve shirt. My core was doing ok after the wool but my legs kept getting cold. I was colder when I curled in a ball, I'm assuming the down got compressed when I did that. I had the kelty out on top of me like a top quilt I didn't zip it up.

I clipped the s clips to the whoopie and it looked like it wasn't too tight and there weren't any gaps at the end due to the 2nd set of suspension being tight across the hammock ends.

My buddy was using a 0degree synthetic and a thermarest in a grand trunk... He has maybe $200 in his entire setup and I've got what should be a primo setup and was cold... This has to be user error right?

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Originally Posted by DuctTape

Too many clothes does NOT make one colder. Restrictive clothing makes one colder.

It does not matter whether your insulation comes from more clothing or more down in a quilt, it provides more insulation. However, not using that insulation correctly can have negative effects as is the case with clothing which restricts blood flow. As is the case with a quilt with extra down pulling it away from the hammock bottom.

A snug quilt and loose clothing will be warmer than any combination of of less optimal conditions.

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No disrespect but I must disagree, too many clothes will make you sweat therefore cause you to chill. If you let the bag do its job you should be able to sleep with nothing more than underwear and be fine. If temp drops below rating of insulation then supplementing with clothing is fine. Cold weather training while I was I'n the Marines we froze the first night with temps at 30 with all of our clothes on. Instructors laughed at us next morning and told us to sleep in our skivvies that night in our zero degree bag and we slept warm. To much of anything will cause dampness and you will get chilled.

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Originally Posted by DuctTape

Too many clothes does NOT make one colder. Restrictive clothing makes one colder.

It does not matter whether your insulation comes from more clothing or more down in a quilt, it provides more insulation. However, not using that insulation correctly can have negative effects as is the case with clothing which restricts blood flow. As is the case with a quilt with extra down pulling it away from the hammock bottom.

A snug quilt and loose clothing will be warmer than any combination of of less optimal conditions.

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I agree about the clothing, though obviously some have a different experience. I mean, there is the whole " sleep naked" approach.

Still, for me, I have always layered my sleep system just as I do my clothing. I doubt there is any way that, when just barely warm enough inside my PeaPod at 27F wearing and/or draping insulated clothing, that if I get rid of the insulated clothing I am going to warm up. I already know that from not being warm enough on top ( bottom warmth no problem ) at those temps with out the warm clothing.

At the same time, a snug or tight fit does not seem to be required with the Speer Pea Pod for some reason. And I am still waiting in vain to see a thread titled something like " my back was cold at 30F in my 20F Pea Pod". Have not seen that one yet. It is very forgiving of set up errors.

I have 3 UQs, and they all work fine for me, but all must be very snug. Here is my routine. I grab the left UQ top edge with my right hand, and grab the right quilt edge with left hand, and pull up. If I am able to move the quilt upwards at all, I tighten the suspension up. What I usually feel is as soon as I start lifting is the fabric lifting against my back, very snug. I really have to work at it to get it to where I'm fearful it is actually too tight. Which might damage something or be uncomfortable. But that taint easy to do. As already mentioned, my unloaded non-bridge hammocks are lifted - at least with my Yeti - 2 or 3 feet in the center. But might be different with quilts that don't have a differential cut, you might go to far and compress the down too much.

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Originally Posted by Mountnman

No disrespect but I must disagree, too many clothes will make you sweat therefore cause you to chill. If you let the bag do its job you should be able to sleep with nothing more than underwear and be fine. If temp drops below rating of insulation then supplementing with clothing is fine. Cold weather training while I was I'n the Marines we froze the first night with temps at 30 with all of our clothes on. Instructors laughed at us next morning and told us to sleep in our skivvies that night in our zero degree bag and we slept warm. To much of anything will cause dampness and you will get chilled.

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Well, for sure, IF you use too much insulation for the temps, and thus over heat and sweat, you are going to get cold. And as you say, if the temps are below the rating of the insulation, adding cloths will keep you warm. But the rating of the quilt will vary with the individual and conditions. ( conditions such as wind and if you are already exhausted and a bit chilled when going to bed ) Plus, Brand A's 30F bag might be no warmer than brand B's 40F bag or quilt.

I don't doubt your experience during cold weather training. A zero bag plus lots of warm clothing in 30F temps = sweat for most of us. And sweat = cold later on. But if your bag had only been a 30 or 40F or 50F bag, you might have needed some warm clothing. And might not have done so well in just your skivvies. Or at least I probably wouldn't.

But again, YMMV and HYOH etc, etc. Because I know there are people who say that a 30F quilt will be warmer at 20 or 30F if you are even buck naked. I can't argue with how it works for them. But for me, layering works, as do vapor barriers which some folks hate. But, especially with no VB, it will not pay to layer so much that I will over heat and start sweating and end up with damp insulation.

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Originally Posted by cataraftgirl

I'm going to go with cold legs due to cotton pants, and overall cold because of no tarp and wind.

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Yeah, that's what I'd go with.

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Originally Posted by BillyBob58

I agree about the clothing, though obviously some have a different experience. I mean, there is the whole " sleep naked" approach.

Still, for me, I have always layered my sleep system just as I do my clothing. I doubt there is any way that, when just barely warm enough inside my PeaPod at 27F wearing and/or draping insulated clothing, that if I get rid of the insulated clothing I am going to warm up. I already know that from not being warm enough on top ( bottom warmth no problem ) at those temps with out the warm clothing.

At the same time, a snug or tight fit does not seem to be required with the Speer Pea Pod for some reason. And I am still waiting in vain to see a thread titled something like " my back was cold at 30F in my 20F Pea Pod". Have not seen that one yet. It is very forgiving of set up errors.


I have 3 UQs, and they all work fine for me, but all must be very snug. Here is my routine. I grab the left UQ top edge with my right hand, and grab the right quilt edge with left hand, and pull up. If I am able to move the quilt upwards at all, I tighten the suspension up. What I usually feel is as soon as I start lifting is the fabric lifting against my back, very snug. I really have to work at it to get it to where I'm fearful it is actually too tight. Which might damage something or be uncomfortable. But that taint easy to do. As already mentioned, my unloaded non-bridge hammocks are lifted - at least with my Yeti - 2 or 3 feet in the center. But might be different with quilts that don't have a differential cut, you might go to far and compress the down too much.



Well, for sure, IF you use too much insulation for the temps, and thus over heat and sweat, you are going to get cold. And as you say, if the temps are below the rating of the insulation, adding cloths will keep you warm. But the rating of the quilt will vary with the individual and conditions. ( conditions such as wind and if you are already exhausted and a bit chilled when going to bed ) Plus, Brand A's 30F bag might be no warmer than brand B's 40F bag or quilt.

I don't doubt your experience during cold weather training. A zero bag plus lots of warm clothing in 30F temps = sweat for most of us. And sweat = cold later on. But if your bag had only been a 30 or 40F or 50F bag, you might have needed some warm clothing. And might not have done so well in just your skivvies. Or at least I probably wouldn't.

But again, YMMV and HYOH etc, etc. Because I know there are people who say that a 30F quilt will be warmer at 20 or 30F if you are even buck naked. I can't argue with how it works for them. But for me, layering works, as do vapor barriers which some folks hate. But, especially with no VB, it will not pay to layer so much that I will over heat and start sweating and end up with damp insulation.

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It's really pretty simple. Too much u will sweat not enough you will be cold. Best advice I feel is know yourself and your equipment before going out away from home and it never hurts to take more gear in cold weather that way it's there if you need it.

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Originally Posted by Mountnman

It's really pretty simple. Too much u will sweat not enough you will be cold. Best advice I feel is know yourself and your equipment before going out away from home and it never hurts to take more gear in cold weather that way it's there if you need it.

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Well said!

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Originally Posted by DuctTape

Too many clothes does NOT make one colder. Restrictive clothing makes one colder.

It does not matter whether your insulation comes from more clothing or more down in a quilt, it provides more insulation. However, not using that insulation correctly can have negative effects as is the case with clothing which restricts blood flow. As is the case with a quilt with extra down pulling it away from the hammock bottom.

A snug quilt and loose clothing will be warmer than any combination of of less optimal conditions.

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Well said. You are not going to get colder with properly layered clothing.

Have someone lay in your hammock while you make adjustments or you lay in there and have them make the adjustments. It's amazing how easy it is to get gaps just by moving a little bit in the hammock. It's also easy to create gaps by over-tightening the ends.

HY

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Originally Posted by Mountnman

No disrespect but I must disagree, too many clothes will make you sweat therefore cause you to chill. If you let the bag do its job you should be able to sleep with nothing more than underwear and be fine. If temp drops below rating of insulation then supplementing with clothing is fine. Cold weather training while I was I'n the Marines we froze the first night with temps at 30 with all of our clothes on. Instructors laughed at us next morning and told us to sleep in our skivvies that night in our zero degree bag and we slept warm. To much of anything will cause dampness and you will get chilled.

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No disrespect taken. Actually we dont disagree at all. I specifically mentioned that innapropriate use could have negative effects. You bring up an excellent point. Too much insulation has diminishing returns as your body will try to compensate for being too warm.

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Originally Posted by HamMike

Check your ends to make sure they are not cinched too tight. I had my phoenix out this weekend and got a chilly back in 40deg. As it turns out I had mine too snug and it was keeping the quilt from snugging up to the hammock. I'm not sure if this happens with the incubator. Worth a check.

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+1, seen this in my incubator.

i agree that you need to cinch the suspention up tight. when i fist got my 20 degree incubator with 2oz overstuff, i was disapointed and was chilly at 45degrees. i chicnched up my suspention to the point it lifts my hammock up quite a bit and have been nice and warm since. the coldest i've slept in has been 23 and not at all cold. i am a very cold sleeper and i feel i could get down to teens defeinatly and single digets possibly.

You guys are the best, I'll crank er down and try again! Thanks for all the other suggestions I figured it was user error. I'm 5'8" so it's plenty long and I was wearing the thin cotton pants so that I wouldn't sweat and if I did have some grime that it would be kept off my bag. I'm used to sleeping with the less is more as a ground dweller so I understood that part that't why I added some clothing as I got cool. Stuff to try thanks!, I'm pretty sure it wasn't cranked down enough now that I think back on it, the ends were sealed but the middle might have sagged and that's where I was cold at.

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Originally Posted by gordonfreeman

Stuff to try thanks!, I'm pretty sure it wasn't cranked down enough now that I think back on it, the ends were sealed but the middle might have sagged and that's where I was cold at.

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If you have issues with the middle sagging, you could always install some cord using the loops along the length of the underquilt and run it over the ridgeline of your hammock to a corresponding loop on the other side of the quilt. This will provide some additional life to the middle of the quilt and keep it snugged up to the hammock.

Let us know how your testing with the above ideas works out.

Cheers

Brian

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Originally Posted by BrianWillan

If you have issues with the middle sagging, you could always install some cord using the loops along the length of the underquilt and run it over the ridgeline of your hammock to a corresponding loop on the other side of the quilt. This will provide some additional life to the middle of the quilt and keep it snugged up to the hammock.

Let us know how your testing with the above ideas works out.

Cheers

Brian

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====> Yep, that works well. Here is a pic of my AHE New River UQ where I put two lines over the ridgeline on my WBBB. Worked like a charm! You can see the left line clearly (orange), the right one not so much, as I disconnected it to get out of the hammock. But the "ridge over" lines to the UQ work pretty well!

~ Sky

Attachment 43226 CLICK TO EXPAND PIC

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Originally Posted by BrianWillan

If you have issues with the middle sagging, you could always install some cord using the loops along the length of the underquilt and run it over the ridgeline of your hammock to a corresponding loop on the other side of the quilt. This will provide some additional life to the middle of the quilt and keep it snugged up to the hammock.

Let us know how your testing with the above ideas works out.

Cheers

Brian

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I love that idea. The UQ I made for my HH has loops for the tie out lines to run through. One about right knee and one at left shoulder. A piece of shock cord from one to the other over the ridge would be a big help. I hope to get my incubator before Friday, but if not I'll try that on my present quilt...