Second night out tonight...

First night was severel weeks ago, first time in a hammock. Location was my wooded backyard, NW New Jersey. Started at about 25, ended at about 20.
Lasted the night, got snowed on too. Equipment was an Eagle Creek Hammock with a nylon tarp just draped over all. I clipped a silver tarp to the bottom outside and put two ridge rests in the hammock sleeve next to one another. Slept in an ancient Sierra Designs synthetic bag, weighs about seven pounds. Stayed warm enough, but just. The RR's shuffled together like a deck of cards so my sides got cool/cold. Not a great night's sleep. (Coyotes or coy-dogs woke me several times yipping and howling...)

So tonight it's supposed to snow about 10 t0 16 inches, temps should be a few degress cooler than last time. I'll be in a HH ultralight with the undercover and their open cell foam insulation. Probably put a thin space blanket in there too. In the hammock I'll be in a 20 degree down Marmot that's in a Big Agnes 40 degree synthetic. The BA has a RR closed cell in the bottom. Over it all is an 8x10 yard tarp. I'll be wearing some fleece and either a fleec or polarguard balaclava

I don't look forward to wrestling into the bag(s) inside the hammock. Any suggestions there?

Well any words of wisdom will be appreciated. Wish me luck....

Jeff

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Originally Posted by skeenut

I don't look forward to wrestling into the bag(s) inside the hammock. Any suggestions there?

Jeff

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I think somebody answered this question on another thread, but some things bear repeating :p

One thing to consider is that you're probably better off with the bag on top of you as a quilt. That'll let you actually USE all the insulation instead of compressing it. It also makes getting in easier - just get in, scoot your feet into the footbox, and drape the rest over you. Just a suggestion.

As far as getting in the bag, start by putting a dry pad on the ground under the entry slit. Sit down in the slit like normal. Lift your feet off the ground and get them inside the footbox. Stand up (feet still inside) and wrap the bag around you. Zip it up to your waist. Sit back down and slide inside the HH. Zip the bag the rest of the way.

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Originally Posted by skeenut

..........

So tonight it's supposed to snow about 10 t0 16 inches, temps should be a few degress cooler than last time. I'll be in a HH ultralight with the undercover and their open cell foam insulation. Probably put a thin space blanket in there too. In the hammock I'll be in a 20 degree down Marmot that's in a Big Agnes 40 degree synthetic. The BA has a RR closed cell in the bottom. Over it all is an 8x10 yard tarp. I'll be wearing some fleece and either a fleec or polarguard balaclava

I don't look forward to wrestling into the bag(s) inside the hammock. Any suggestions there?

Well any words of wisdom will be appreciated. Wish me luck....

Jeff

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Skeenut,
are you out there yet in the cold? The way that BlackBishop described getting in the bag pretty well covers it. If for some reason I don't want to put the foot of the bag on the ground or on the pad on the ground, then I concentrate on keeping the hood of the sleeping bag all the way to the top of the hammock before I sit back in the hammock. I can accomplish this now, but it's never easy. I'm not sure how that will work with the big Agnes and Ridgerest pad. It might make it easier or harder. It sounds like you've got plenty of sleeping bags though, so your top insulation ought to keep you pretty well covered! You might indeed be able to get by using them quilt style which is both easier to get into and more comfortable. But if it's cold enough that you would need the hood on the bag, well in my experience, nothing quite equals that for keeping warm. So that would mean getting in there and using the bag as it was originally intended, rather than as a quilt. Or, possibly using a separate hood. There's nothing quite like a thick hood cinched down to a breathing hole if you are desperate to keep warm. As opposed to a bunch of warm air escaping around your shoulders and neck.

By all means use that space blanket over the Hennessy underpad. Although, with that Ridgerest inside a Super Shelter, I don't think you will have any trouble staying warm bottom insulation wise. If you weren't using the pad, other good tricks are placing light insulation clothing items on top of the pad, or heavier ones underneath the pad. Especially if you have any down clothing that you would otherwise be taking with you anyway on a hike. Or a trash bag lightly filled with either a space blanket or crinkled up newspaper (Garlington insulator) placed underneath the Hennessy pad. THE TRICK IS TO NOT have anything in there that's heavy enough to pull the undercover too far away from the underpad, leaving a big gap. Any gap is to be avoided.

Here is a trick I recently learned that seems to be helping with the pulling away problem. The elastic pull outs that come off of the side of the Hennessy hammock, through the loop of the underpad and out of the undercover to an attachment point: assuming that you have the elastics doubled or quadrupled for additional strength like Hennessy says for use with the undercover, I then take this elastics/guy out cord and bring it back over the top edge of the undercover and back out the exit hole in the undercover and through the hammock loop one more time. When I do this, the undercover tends to stay up in place much better than when I don't. Therefore, extra insulation that I place between the underpad and undercover don't seem to have as much tendency to pull the undercover down towards the ground. My experiments with it so far seem to indicate that it's at least somewhat helpful. But to whatever degree you can get that undercover to stay in place and not sag toward the ground, there's almost no limit to what you can put in there underneath the pad for many inches of extra insulation.

Good luck!

I've been camping out a good bit lately in my HH to test this cold weather as well as how different gear works in the hammock. I was out when it was 3 degrees and 15mph winds last week.
I have a HH ULB asym with a MacCat deluxe over it. I used a Walmart 25" full length 3/8" CCF pad covered with a "Neatsheet". http://www.theneatsheet.com/ I also use another CCF pad just 36" long for under my back to neck slipped inside the neatsheet as well. I also use two 36" x 10" CCF wings for under my arms. I used a Marmot 0 degree down bag with a full length Right hand zipper.
1. Place the CCF in the HH just like it should be when you will on it.
2. With the bag zipped up insert it into the HH and center it over the CCF pad.
3. Place the wings into position, one on the right , one on the left of the CCF pad
4. Now unzip the bag 3/4 the way down and open it up. Push the top of the bag over to the side exposing inside the bag where you will want to sit.
5. Turn around and sit inside the bag. I scoot back a little inside the bag, clip my shoes onto a biner hanging from the ridgeline, and stick my feet into the bag.
6. I zip up the bag to above my waist.
7. At this point, I place my feet inside the bag at the right spot on the CCF pad then push back on the pad.
8. With a little wriggling, I zip up the bag, check the wings positions, set my pillow under my head, put the headlamp in my pocket and fall asleep.

I can now quickly get into the bag without too much effort and center myself over the pad. The neatsheet on the pad works well. If the HH is inclined properly, which is slightly tilting down.. towards the head end.., I stay put without sliding and stay warm all night. The sleeping bag seals any drafts against the CCF pad, the wings keep my arms warm, the double CCF layer under my back keeps that warm as well.

I was thinking of a under quilt, but have come to the conclusion I can handle the above system well without spending any more money. The CCF pads and wings can be removed according to weather requirements and all roll up into my Equinox Katahdin bag.

Last cold night I spent in my hammock I used my mummy bag as a quilt and my ccp cut down a little bit. I added my sit pad to the inside of the footbox of my bag. That might my feet inside of socks were on the pad inside of the bag. I think that could be a little warmer. Worth a try at least.

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Originally Posted by TDWeaver

I've been camping out a good bit lately in my HH to test this cold weather as well as how different gear works in the hammock. I was out when it was 3 degrees and 15mph winds last week........ I also use two 36" x 10" CCF wings for under my arms....
I was thinking of a under quilt, but have come to the conclusion I can handle the above system well without spending any more money. The CCF pads and wings can be removed according to weather requirements and all roll up into my Equinox Katahdin bag.

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Excellent report! Shows what can be done with just pads and for little money. Do you feel that comfort suffered much by using 2 pads compared to the hammock without any pads? I haven't found much decrease in comfort adding a Ridgerest in an SPE with wings to the SS. But I do notice a stout increase in warmth relative to the already useful SS. How did you keep the wings in place--- was that part of the neat sheet?

I have always struggled with getting in my bag inside my HH. There is no easy way to do it. While at Mt Rogers I decided to try my bag in top quilt mode and I will never struggle with getting in my bag again. It is much warmer (assuming you have adequate bottom insulation. If not insert a pad) and I was amazed how much loft I was loosing by lying on my bag. The inside of the hammock was filled with warm down goodness.

OK, I made it through the night. Starting temp was 17, ending temp this morning at 0700 was 12.

I was warm enough, but intermittently cold. I put my polarguard jacket, pants and down jacket in the supershelter (but OVER the foam pad, duhhh) and slept with fleece legs, poly t-neck and polarguard hood from the jacket. The Big Agnes was used as described with the Ridgerest CCP and it was a bear to get in the hammock. I went in as suggested: first sat in the hammock with legs dangling, then attempted to pull the BA with RR and Marmot down bag over my legs,then stand and pull up over my body. Trouble already doing some wierd version of the watusi struggling to get the bag(s) in place. When done with phase one I sat again and laid back in the hammock. I went in OK and the bags around my body went in OK, but the Ridge Rest stuck outside the hammock and were pinned there with my body weight closing the hammock slit. MUCH more struggling ensued to get the bottom of the Big Agnes with the RR inot the hammock. THEN I had to try to get bags in place and the RR (still in the Big Agnes) properly centered head to foot (quite a trick, picture a drunken uncoordinated inchworm) and then oriented diagonally. By this time it was light out and I got up. Not really, but did take about fifteen minutes to get that far. QUITE exasperating.
I was warm enough except when I leaned against the sides and compressed the loft or when sleep girations got me off the RR AND off the supershelter.

Next time: 1. Extra clothes go under the foam HH SS pad. 2. Defintely going to twist the SS loops twice through the hammock. 3. Big Agnes inserted first and opened, then sit and put on inner bag and lay back etc...

Thanks to all for suggestions and warm thoughts.

I'll make this work yet!!!

Best,
Jeff

Yup, just keep trying! You'll find something that works for you!

i'm not a HH user but it seems to me that method is making things WAY harder than they should be.
i believe i would be thinking about some way to better insulate the bottom & use the bag as a quilt. really easy to use that way.
i made a BA horse thief bag into a really efficient quilt by removing the zipper & the bottom sleeve. it's one of my favorites now.

I'm agreed that the best route is to insulate under the hammock and go quilted inside. Using a pad in the hammock is just frustrating.

I wish the bug netting was removeable on the HH. Making the hammock warm by insulating on the outside is fine but then you have to contend with the bottom entry...

Has anyone, shudder, cut the netting off their HH?

Maybe the HH is best for three seasons and a top loader like the Speer or Crazy Creek better for winter, only because of the user access issues.

I'm sold on the concept of the Asym design of the HH and that is why I bought it, but I'm not married to it. It is demonstrably better for anyone?

I may try again tonight with the Crazy Crib and put a sleeping bag on the outside with a space blanket in the sleeve. Report to follow...

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Originally Posted by skeenut

I'm agreed that the best route is to insulate under the hammock and go quilted inside. Using a pad in the hammock is just frustrating.

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Pads are definitely not as comfy in my opinion. As far as ease of use, they're not that bad in a top-loader. The enclosure of the HH just aggravates the problem.

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Originally Posted by skeenut

I wish the bug netting was removeable on the HH. Making the hammock warm by insulating on the outside is fine but then you have to contend with the bottom entry...

Has anyone, shudder, cut the netting off their HH?

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Yup - Slowhike cut the netting off his friend's HH if I'm not mistaken. There's been a few others that've done it too. Search the archives here, and check out Brian from Tampa's pix at the Yahoo HammockCamping group. I've been toying with the idea of adding a zipper to my ULB so the netting is removable and replaceable at will. Just haven't gotten up the nerve yet :p

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Originally Posted by skeenut

Maybe the HH is best for three seasons and a top loader like the Speer or Crazy Creek better for winter, only because of the user access issues.

I'm sold on the concept of the Asym design of the HH and that is why I bought it, but I'm not married to it. It is demonstrably better for anyone?

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I've almost gone completely away from my HH at this point. There's not much of a bug problem most of the places I hike, and my homemade Speer-type is just more comfy and easier to use. But that's just me.

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Originally Posted by skeenut

I may try again tonight with the Crazy Crib and put a sleeping bag on the outside with a space blanket in the sleeve. Report to follow...

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Keep up the testing! It's all about finding out what works for you!

yep, but i'm not sure where that thread is now. i gotta get of this computer & start a down project i have in mind<g>.

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Originally Posted by skeenut

OK, I made it through the night. Starting temp was 17, ending temp this morning at 0700 was 12.

I was warm enough, but intermittently cold. .........
I was warm enough except when I leaned against the sides and compressed the loft or when sleep girations got me off the RR AND off the supershelter.

Next time: 1. Extra clothes go under the foam HH SS pad. 2. Defintely going to twist the SS loops twice through the hammock ........
Thanks to all for suggestions and warm thoughts.

I'll make this work yet!!!

Best,
Jeff

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Congratulations! Despite an epic struggle, you made it to 12° relatively warm. I know you don't want to spend any more money most likely, but the Speer SPE has made using a separate pad in the Hennessy hammock (or the Speer Hammock) pretty darn easy for me. It also takes care of all (or most) side insulation(arms/elbows/knees) issues. I had wondered what it would be like to get in a Big Agnes bag with pad in place inside a hammock. I see it's not easy. But I don't have any trouble getting in the sleeping bag if I put my feet into the bag and pull the bag up before I sit down in a hammock. But I can see that a pad being inside the bag might make it more difficult.

As for more insulation underneath, concentrate on preventing the undercover from being pulled down and away from the underpad. Either by beefing up the side loop connection as described, or by using light items that won't pull the undercover down, such as Garlington insulators or down clothing. It could be that if you have adequate insulation underneath as you gain experience with the Super Shelter, and maybe a long with a separate pad which will stay in place as you get in the shelter -- such as with an SPE -- that you would be able to just use those two bags over you as quilts and still be warm enough. Although you're still going to have to figure out a way to defeat any shoulder drafts and heat loss from your head and neck. Which is what I have used a separate marmot hood for, which I got on eBay for about 30 bucks. Dry loft, 750 down, and about 3 inches of thick loft all the way around my head, face and neck! So far, I usually end up overheating when I try to use this!

I think you did pretty good overall considering it was 12°!

OK, I ordered and received an SPE with four extenders from Ed. It's set up in the HH Asym UL, waiting....I'm going to use the 20 degree down Marmot with the 40 degree Big Agnes, both in quilt mode. Polarquard 3D helmet on the noggin and fleece from toe to neck. No SS on the outside.

Last night I tried a bivy for comparison. Used an OR Advanced on my wood deck. Slept in Patagonia puff pants and jacket with hood inside the Marmot 20 degree down bag. It got down to around 12 degrees again, breezy, almost windy, too. Suprisingly I was more comfortable temperature wise in the hammock. Not that I've been toasty warm yet...Lots of condensation in the bivy.

So tonight I'm in the HH on two RR CC 72x20 inch pads in the SPE with the CC blue foam extenders from Ed. It won't be quite as cold but should be down to about 15 or so.

Report to follow...

Any hangers in the Northwest NJ area?

Best,
Jeff

Gang,

Best night out yet! Used Ed's SPE with four wings and two RR CC pads in the HH ULB Asym (love those abbreviations!). On top were a twenty degree Marmot down bag covered with a Big Agnes forty degree 3D bag, both were used in semi quilt form. Lightweight Capilene tops and bottoms, wool socks and 3D helmet. No underquilt.
In "bed" at 2130 and 23 degrees out, up at 0530 and 13 degrees. Started the night just toasty warm and stayed that way until about 0500 when I think the ambient temps took a dive. Could've slept more but not as well. Coyotes were yipping and yowling too...
Observations: 1. Quilts on top good, sleeping bags not so good. 2. SPE makes using pads in the hammock OK, not great, but OK. The insulation is great and the side wings do their job, but the pads still slip around and what should be a half awake turn-over in the middle of the night is still a nearly full awake adjustment session making sure you're still on the pads. Still a great leap forward in temperature control and convenience compared to my last go round with pads in the HH, sans SPE. 3. I need to remember some sort of pillow for neck support.
I've ordered a Nest from JRB. Should be here Wednesday. I think the Nest with SPE and a single 3/4 RR CC will keep me toasty, not just OK, in all but the most bitter temps. I might just be ready to venture more than forty feet from my house.
Best,
jeff

I'm always amazed when I continually read about the struggles you bottom loaders have trying to simply get in your hammocks and having evrything stay in place. My Claytor Jungle hammock with the double bottom seems so simple in comparison. You can place cc insulation ad naseum in the double bottom and it never moves an inch no matter how much you toss and turn. You can also have your insulation as wide as you want easily covering your shoulders etc.

Regarding entry, you simply unzip it, sit down....lay down...and pull your top quilt/sleeping bag over you and go to sleep. It really is and should be that simple. If you prefer an underquilt it still remains just as simple plus you could still insert a cc pad in the double bottom if it's REALLY cold. I'm sorry but those bottom loaders just seem sooooo complicated. I can't even imagine getting up to relieve myself in one of those hammocks.

If the HH hamocks had a side zip and a double bottom I'd probably buy one. Until then, the negatives far outweigh the positives in my humble opinion. I do enjoy reading about your varied techniques and efforts to enter your hammocks.

Miguel

I love the bottom entrance on my Hennessy. No problems for me.

which do you prefer
tom claytors hammock - 12.00%
3 Votes
tom hennessey hammocks - 88.00%
22 Votes

Sorry. I could'nt resist.

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Originally Posted by skeenut

Gang,

Best night out yet! Used Ed's SPE with four wings and two RR CC pads in the HH ULB Asym (love those abbreviations!). On top were a twenty degree Marmot down bag covered with a Big Agnes forty degree 3D bag, both were used in semi quilt form. Lightweight Capilene tops and bottoms, wool socks and 3D helmet. No underquilt.
In "bed" at 2130 and 23 degrees out, up at 0530 and 13 degrees. Started the night just toasty warm and stayed that way until about 0500 when I think the ambient temps took a dive. Could've slept more but not as well. Coyotes were yipping and yowling too...
Observations: 1. Quilts on top good, sleeping bags not so good. 2. SPE makes using pads in the hammock OK, not great, but OK. The insulation is great and the side wings do their job, but the pads still slip around and what should be a half awake turn-over in the middle of the night is still a nearly full awake adjustment session making sure you're still on the pads. Still a great leap forward in temperature control and convenience compared to my last go round with pads in the HH, sans SPE. 3. I need to remember some sort of pillow for neck support.
I've ordered a Nest from JRB. Should be here Wednesday. I think the Nest with SPE and a single 3/4 RR CC will keep me toasty, not just OK, in all but the most bitter temps. I might just be ready to venture more than forty feet from my house.
Best,
jeff

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Yay! The SPE seems to have done the trick. I'm not sure why the pads are still slipping around, I haven't had that trouble in either the HH or Speer when using SPE with 20" wide pads. In fact, if I decide I want to rearrange the pad left/right or up, on purpose, that can be a little tricky. I also don't have any trouble turning over. I've done well warmth wise using the SPE and one full length RR inside the HH SS at 18*, without even bothering with extra clothing or Garlington insulators underneath. But my warmest experience yet was the next night, also 18*, Speer hammock, SPE, full length RR and 3/4 length thermarest 1" thick ultralight. Zipped into my 5* NF mummy style bag( just one, no additional bags), with neck collar and hood cinched down, I actually started over heating after about 1 hr., and for the first time was actually able to go quilt style and stay totally warm.

As for Miguel's post re: bottom entry HH problems, It's really not a problem with me. I can get in and out very quick, actually easier than I can my speer, although the Speer might be a little easier to get in the bag, or at least to get on and stay on the pad. But getting out of the HH is great. Just open the bottom with my feet, put my feet out and stand up. And it's about that easy with the pads in place. But the Jungle hammocks, I suppose, might be even easier. Is it easier to get inside a sleeping bag with a jungle hammock? If so, I wonder why?

But I don't really have much trouble getting in a bag anymore since I've learned several tricks. The latest being starting out lying on my side or stomach, and putting the hood over my head and bag over my torso and shoulders from behind, then feet in the bag and then just roll over and zip up. Now if needed the hood and collar are available to maximize the warmth of the bag without any drafts. Though lately I have been warm enough to pull the hood down, which then makes a nice neck roll/pillow in perfect position for comfort!

Keep experimenting and posting results!

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Originally Posted by FanaticFringer

I love the bottom entrance on my Hennessy. No problems for me.

which do you prefer
tom claytors hammock - 12.00%
3 Votes
tom hennessey hammocks - 88.00%
22 Votes

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

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Let's keep in mind "denial" is a river in Egypt. :)

Seriously though...if you have a pad and who knows what else lying in the bottom of your hammock, don't you have to move it aside to enter your hammock? With the Claytor your pad isn't even in your hammock. All you do is slip under your underquilt/sleeping bag. It just seems like there would have to be quite a bit of rearranging resulting from entering from the bottom of your hammock.

Regarding your poll....Claytor hammocks haven't been around that long and he doesn't seem to advertise his products even within the backpacking/hammocking community. The exact opposite could be said about Hennesy. Bottom line....use what pleases you. Until recently I'll bet very few people on this forum or Whiteblaze have ever seen Claytor.

It's only a matter of tome before Neo will convert you all! :)

Have a great day, Miguel

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Originally Posted by Miguel

Let's keep in mind "denial" is a river in Egypt. :)

Seriously though...if you have a pad and who knows what else lying in the bottom of your hammock, don't you have to move it aside to enter your hammock? With the Claytor your pad isn't even in your hammock. All you do is slip under your underquilt/sleeping bag. It just seems like there would have to be quite a bit of rearranging resulting from entering from the bottom of your hammock.

Regarding your poll....Claytor hammocks haven't been around that long and he doesn't seem to advertise his products even within the backpacking/hammocking community. The exact opposite could be said about Hennesy. Bottom line....use what pleases you. Until recently I'll bet very few people on this forum or Whiteblaze have ever seen Claytor.

It's only a matter of tome before Neo will convert you all! :)

Have a great day, Miguel

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I get the same utility out of my homemade for a lot less weight.... :D

I like my HH. It has its strengths. I think for a simple all in one hammock it is pretty good. It is hard to beat the bug protection. I have switched to a homemade. But mainly because I like the top loader and sleeping under the stars. If the bugs are out in force, I will definitly take the HH.

Miguel:

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Let's keep in mind "denial" is a river in Egypt. :)

Seriously though...if you have a pad and who knows what else lying in the bottom of your hammock, don't you have to move it aside to enter your hammock? With the Claytor your pad isn't even in your hammock. All you do is slip under your underquilt/sleeping bag. It just seems like there would have to be quite a bit of rearranging resulting from entering from the bottom of your hammock.

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Not really. Remember, the sleeper and pad lie at a diagonal to the entrance. True, the left edge of a 20" wide pad is over a small part of the sit down part of the opening. But I don't find it to be a significant problem. I just sit down on that edge of the pad and lie back in the normal fashion, and I'm all done. And if I already got mostly in my bag before sitting down, that's all done also. If not, a few minutes extra getting in the bag once inside the hammock ( there were some tricks to learn for this maneuver, but once you figure it out, that's no longer a problem). I guess there are a few seconds of additional fiddling around at sit down time, to make sure you don't displace the pad from where you want it to be. And that makes it a little bit quicker to just sit down on the pad from the top as with the Speer. But I just don't find it to be a big deal, at most a minor inconvenience compared to my top entry. For me, the biggest attraction to my Speer is being able to reach out of the Hammock, maybe even to objects on the ground, and the webbing instead of rope. Now, keep in mind anything I just wrote is based upon using the SPE with the required 20" wide pad. The HH used with a wider pad or without the SPE, particularly with multiple pads for extra warmth, is probably a totally different story! I'm thinking that would be quite inconvenient.

Quote:

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Regarding your poll....Claytor hammocks haven't been around that long and he doesn't seem to advertise his products even within the backpacking/hammocking community. The exact opposite could be said about Hennesy. Bottom line....use what pleases you. Until recently I'll bet very few people on this forum or Whiteblaze have ever seen Claytor.

It's only a matter of tome before Neo will convert you all! :)

Have a great day, Miguel

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Hey, Neo may indeed convert us all, because this jungle hammock sounds great in several ways. The way I see it, the more good hammock designs and research going on re: hammocks and hamm. accessories, the better. If I didn't already have a Speer and HH, I would probably be looking real hard at the Claytor! But regarding the HH bottom entry vs. the Speer top entry, I have both and can't make up my mind which I like best. They both have distinct pros and cons, and I find both very comfortable. I love being able to just quickly "drop out" of the HH, and I may even find entry quicker and easier if not complicated ( just a little) by pads and SuperShelter. And one of my original preferences of the Speer, ease of sitting and lounging, are no longer as strong of a preference since I figured out how to use the HH as a chair and/or lounger, thanks to Shane Steinkemps (SP?) great video. Now, chair use couldn't be easier.

On the other hand, for extreme cold conditions, there is something very attractive to the simple as dirt approach of just putting the required thickness of pads in the Speer and lying down! While at the same time, being all set for unexpected ground duty ( :eek: ) sense you have plenty of pads with you. And saving the few ounces by leaving the bug net and/or ridgeline behind. Of course, some hate pads in hammocks, which would be the fly in that ointment! But I find them pretty usable. But I also wonder about what kind of development Tom Hennessy might be up to now regarding cold weather hammocking? I bet he is up to something, an advance or improvement on the SS!

But either way is good, and the Claytor sounds like it might be just as good and maybe better than either. Have you used the Claytor and one of these others? I'm sure Neo has. The reason I ask is, forgetting about the pads for the moment, do y'all claim that it is easier to get inside a sleping bag with the Claytor? I don't know why it would be, but if it is that could be a major selling point.

The only other "high quality" hammock I've used is a Clark, which is a top entry. The things I like about the Claytor are, the top entry, the double bottom, and the spreader loops for the netting. You must also keep in mind that I'm not into real cold weather camping so I'll probably never invest in an underquilt. A cc foam pad will be fine for my needs. The double bottom was a big selling point for me. Once the pad is inserted it stays in place regardless if it's CC or a Thermarest type pad. Any size/thickness pad can be used and just about any shape including extenders etc. I like the idea that the only things in the hammock itself are me and my bag/topquilt. Nothing moves or bunches up under me regardless off how much I move around. The netting spreader bars really open it up....it's not claustrophobic at all. Regarding weight.....compared to the tent I'm used to, the Claytor hammock feels like I'm carrying a marshmallow! Well...maybe two. I also like the idea of being able to set things on the ground such as a drink etc and still be able to reach it while in the hammock. I'll take a zippered hammock any day. That's about it in a nutshell. The only thing I might change on the Claytor is to continue the zipper up to the top so the netting could be flipped up and out of the way on one side, similar to a Clark. Having said all that, I'll try to keep an open mind and look forward to trying my first HH. Oh yeah....I also like the extra length of the Jungle hammock.

Can't wait until Spring. I'm retiring in June and plan on hammocking my way all the way to California and back. Prolly have to pick up some longer straps for those California trees! :)

Miguel

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Originally Posted by TeeDee

Miguel:

Just reviewed Tom Claytor's Mosquito Hammock site. Raised a few questions:

1. This picture:

http://www.mosquitohammock.com/image...HammockZip.jpg

shows the zippers. Now I'm know that the zippers can be pulled closer together, but they can be made only so close and there will still be a gap between them. In my experience, at least one mosquito will always find that gap. Trying to swat a mosquito in a hammock is not easy.

The zippers seal up pretty tight. Remember....they don't call it a "Jungle" hammock for nothing! The double bottom prevents any skeeters from biting you butt!

2. Do you always have to use a spreader bar as shown here:

http://www.mosquitohammock.com/image...HammockNet.JPG

on the bug netting? The arrangement for the bug netting using a second ridgeline cord and spreader bars is really getting complicated and is going to take more time. That makes 3 things to hang between the trees: 1. the hammock, 2. the bug net ridgeline and 3. possibly a tarp. If it's raining, a lot of people, including myself, hang the tarp with the tie outs below the hammock tieouts on the trees. It looks like the bug net ridgeline is going to preclude this. Rain doesn't stop the insects, at least in my experience. How do you handle a tarp and the bug netting when it rains?

You don't need to use a spreader bar but it opens it up quite nicely. You can make one out of a dowel or just grab a stick as in the picture...it literally only takes about a minute. Sometimes I only spread the head end.

I've hung the tarp very low and the line from the netting has never interfered. If you search his site a bit more there is a pic of the netting being suspended from a sewn loop which is attached to the underside of the tarp. This way you don't need to tie it to a tree and eliminates any chance of pripping in the rain. My tarp doesn't have the loop but I may add one myself.

3. I like the way Claytor has attached the suspension to the hammock:

http://www.mosquitohammock.com/image...HammockEnd.JPG

Good method. Maybe a little heavier than whipping, but easier for a beginner to accomplish maybe??

4. How do you lay diagonally?? All of the pictures show the occupant laying along the suspension line. Now Blackbishop here likes that, but he seems to be in a minority. Everybody else seems to heavily favor laying on a diagonal, if not even perpendicular to the suspension line. The bug netting as constructed by Claytor would seem to prevent laying on a diagonal. Is this true in your experience??

I suspect you can't lie as diagonally in a Jungle hammock as you can in a HH. I can sleep very comfortably on my side or my back. I do believe I do achieve some diagonal angle. It seem quite a bit more roomy than say Clark. I really can't compare since I have no experience with a HH.

5. This picture:

http://www.mosquitohammock.com/images/picKnotHitch4.JPG

seems to indicate that Claytor uses all webbing in hanging the hammock. Webbing for the suspension and around the trees. What kind of webbing does he supply? Does he supply enough to go around the trees also??

I believe the webbing is either 12 or 15' long which has been plenty so far.

I like the double bottom. Similar to Risks zhammock I believe. I use the HH Supershelter. and just insert extra pads under the hammock and on top of the open cell foam that comes with the Supershelter. I don't have to be concerned with pad placement beyond making sure that it is placed on top of the Supershelter open cell foam pad so that it lies under me. In getting into the HH, I just nudge the pads to one side and enter. The cords on the SS pad move the pads back into position once I'm fully inside. To exit I just put my foot through the bottom entrance/exit, nudge them aside and exit normally. No problem. I don't hassle with moving the pads while moving in the HH. They stay in place just like they would under the Claytor.

All in all, I like the weight of the HH better than the Claytor and the laying diagonally which seems to be more difficult in the Claytor or impossible.

The Claytor looks to be good hammock and I'm glad that you are pleased
with it.

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Good observations and questions....I look forward to trying a HH in the future but in the meantime I'll continue enjoying my Claytor.

A handshake in thought, Miguel

Postscript to the above post!

If you look closely my answers are within the quote. I didn't think it would come out looking like that. Apparently I'm just not that computer literate. I thought your print and mine would appear differently.

How do you repeatedly take short quotes from one post and have them appear seperately from your answer?

Miguel

teedee... i'm another one that lays pretty much strait w/ the hammock supports.
but i also hang w/ less sag... tighter hammock... more horizontal.
and i use an insulated air mat that's only about half inflated, so i'm laying pretty close to flat. ...tim

The package from Jacks' came today!!!! The package from Jacks' came today!!!! The package from Jacks' came today!!!!

OK, I feel calmer now. My Nest and Jeff's design pack cover/hammock storage/water carrier/washbasin have arrived.

It's kind of misty yucky out so I'll be setting everything up inside (can't get in the hammock in the house) for a trial fitting and look see. On first inspection though everything just looks top notch, and GREEEEEEN.

Does anyone use a Nest with the Hennessy supersystem? Any benefits/detriments warmth-wise? Again, I just don't want to re-invent the wheel or revisit old topics...

Best,
Jeff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skeenut

The package from Jacks' came today!!!! The package from Jacks' came today!!!! The package from Jacks' came today!!!!

OK, I feel calmer now. My Nest and Jeff's design pack cover/hammock storage/water carrier/washbasin have arrived.

It's kind of misty yucky out so I'll be setting everything up inside (can't get in the hammock in the house) for a trial fitting and look see. On first inspection though everything just looks top notch, and GREEEEEEN.

Does anyone use a Nest with the Hennessy supersystem? Any benefits/detriments warmth-wise? Again, I just don't want to re-invent the wheel or revisit old topics...

Best,
Jeff

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Skeenut,

Glad you got your JRB gear..... BTW, that is green.... we looked into red but the manufacturer wanted twice as much for red... something about long way from China... color options are shrinking in US made 1.1.... ;)

FWIW, please do not put a Nest inside the HH SS, as it is too close fitting.... Thus the Nest will not fully loft and the trapped condensation will exaccerbate the contrained loft problem, thus greatly reducing the value of the Nest.

Back yard testing in yukky weather is good practice for the AT....be a real hanger and go outside...

pan

I know its been said before, but it should be reiterated....The Jacks make a high quality product and are very knowledgeable about quilts in general. I learned alot from them at the Hammock Forums Winter Hangout. BD

I used the Nest outside of the HH Undercover (without the Underpad) one time. It worked and the temps didn't get below 40. But it still bears further testing. If you do let us know how it goes.

I've installed the nest and put a few pictures up in the underquilt gallery.

I'll probably test again tonight, but temps are only supposed to get down to about 19 degrees.

Should I try no pads and rely only on the Nest with my two quilts on top system? Or is 20 degrees ambient asking too much of the Nest underquilt?

Jeff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skeenut

I've installed the nest and put a few pictures up in the underquilt gallery.

I'll probably test again tonight, but temps are only supposed to get down to about 19 degrees.

Should I try no pads and rely only on the Nest with my two quilts on top system? Or is 20 degrees ambient asking too much of the Nest underquilt?

Jeff

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You can probably do the Nest alone if you're a warm sleeper - at least from others' reports. Since you can bail to the house (or retrieve a pad fairly easily) I'd at least try it - get an idea of what its personal limits are for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skeenut

I've installed the nest and put a few pictures up in the underquilt gallery.

I'll probably test again tonight, but temps are only supposed to get down to about 19 degrees.

Should I try no pads and rely only on the Nest with my two quilts on top system? Or is 20 degrees ambient asking too much of the Nest underquilt?

Jeff

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Only 19 degrees? No wonder people think we're crazy.:D

The nest under the hhss will get you to the upper single digets. The NEST has to go under the ss for the best results.

I need some help/advice with what I'm certain are installation/fitment issues and my Nest. From all reports I should be able to be quite comfortable with the JRB Nest underquilt at temps into the teens. Last night was about 20 or so and was my inaugural voyage with the Nest in my HH Asym ULB. It was also the first time I ventured out for without a pad. I was fine on top with my two bag faux quilt system, but my backside got quite cool. Cool enough that I called it quits after about four hours.
I'm sure I need to adjust how the Nest is hanging under the hammock. That's where I need the help; I need some visual clues. Suggestions such as, "Put your hand under the hammock between it and the nest. There should be about a one inch gap (or three, or no gap) between it and the hammock to allow for stretching etc," are most helpful to my limited brain.
I didn't use the SS at all. I might try that between the hammock and the Nest.

Thanks,
Jeff

I'll let the Jacks handle this one as a final word, but with my Rag Mtn. I found that I needed to JUST be able to feel the TOP of the lofted "poofy" sections between the baffles when I stuck my hand between the hammock and quilt. I think this insures no compression. It's a bit different than a synthetic, because the down is so easily compressible.

I don't know that you have much of an issue there, though - many people say that 2" loft (like the Nest) only gets them down to around 30*.

Quote:

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Miguel:Postscript to the above post!

If you look closely my answers are within the quote. I didn't think it would come out looking like that. Apparently I'm just not that computer literate. I thought your print and mine would appear differently.

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Thanks for the PS! I had missed your responses because I just thought it was an erroneous double post my TeeDee.

Quote:

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How do you repeatedly take short quotes from one post and have them appear seperately from your answer?

Miguel

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I just hit the quote button, then I get rid of the "quote" formatting at the beginning and end of the quote. Then I go thru each section I want to respond to in order, select it with the mouse, and click the little yellow symbol just above the text, to the left of the # symbol, that says, when you hold your mouse cursor(pointer) over it: "wrap quote tags around selecte text". And I select and delete what I don't want to respond to as I go.

I'm sure there is an easier way, but this works for me.

Skeenut,

First of all, Blackbishop is correct. The Nest is advertised as a 3 season quilt. Most people can use it by itself into the low 30s. There have been reports from people who needed additional insulation in the 40s (personally, I think these are installation issues) and there are reports from some people who have successfully ventured into the teens (I think there was generally some form of augmentation (pads) used in these cases). Bottom line - you were probably beyond the quilt's capability at 20 degrees.

Blackbishop is also correct about checking correct installation. With the hammock empty, when you stick your hand between the hammock and UQ there should be the slightest gap. With your palm lightly touching the hammock your knuckles should be brushing the UQ. The absolute best method to check installation is with two people. Put one in the hammock while the other checks the loft of the quilt and adjusts suspension cord until the quilt is just barely touching the hammock and is fully lofting below.

If it helps, when I think that I am going to need extra insulation I put my ccp on the ground next to me. It does not take long for me to grab it and put it in my hammock with me.

I'll second the simplification of having someone help with the fitting - NCPatrick and I swapped fittings on our trip to LG and things went MUCH smoother and quicker.

Smee and Blackbishop,

Thanks for the input. I'll check my clearances with a partner and see how I stacked up. I think I was pretty close but I'll tweak a bit... It's important for me to know how to maximize the performance of my gear and then understand where the edges of said performance are. Hence all the testing and questions.

BTW, I wasn't COLD, just chilly; I think the Nest performed very well. I was probably a bit outside its temperature range for toasty comfort!

I am going to try the SS with the Nest outside of it. More to come....

Best,
Skeenut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skeenut

Smee and Blackbishop,

Thanks for the input. I'll check my clearances with a partner and see how I stacked up. I think I was pretty close but I'll tweak a bit... It's important for me to know how to maximize the performance of my gear and then understand where the edges of said performance are. Hence all the testing and questions.

BTW, I wasn't COLD, just chilly; I think the Nest performed very well. I was probably a bit outside its temperature range for toasty comfort!

I am going to try the SS with the Nest outside of it. More to come....

Best,
Skeenut

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I think you will find that you will gain what you need by adding the ss. set the hammock up first,then the ss and nest last. way better than a pad and no condensation issue.

I can get into the 30s with the Nest. Any lower than that and I'll need something else...like putting the NS+Nest on bottom and using another bag on top.

Check here for some info on installing/adjusting/using the JRBs...
http://www.tothewoods.net/JRB.html

And here's a blurb on adjusting it.
http://www.tothewoods.net/ColdWeatherTenLakes.html