New Suspension Idea? Feedback?

Hello all - I am making my own hammock using headchange4u, Just Jeff and Risk's inspiration and info. I've finished with the base and whipping, and am researching suspension. I've been planning on doing larksheads attached to each end with whoopies that'll attach to webbed toggles. But then I had an idea of my own. It may have been done before, it may be a terrible idea, but I was wondering what your thoughts are...diagram and explanation follows:

Basically I would make the entire suspension one large loop [seen in red in the diagram]. It would look like a single rope that was larksheaded at both ends to the hammock ends [the "o"s in the diagram], and wraps through carabiners attached to each tree [the "+"s]. It would be adjustable in the middle above the hammock with a whoopie-style compression [the "="s]. The green ridgeline would be attached to loops in the whipping as seen in headchange4u's tutorial.

Code:

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|| /                        \||
 ||/                          ||_/
\||                          ||
 ||-+---------======--------+-||
 ||  \      /      \      /  ||
 ||  \                  /  ||
 ||    o-----------------o    ||
 ||    \_______________/    ||
 ||                          ||
 ###############################

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Benefits I see:

• No need to have an extra line for a tarp - just use the suspension line!
• As simple as whoopie slings, but with a shorter minimum length to the ropes since the whoopies don't get in the way.
• Only one adjustment point for the entire suspension.
• Carabiners make for super easy attachment.
• The netting is held up by the ridgeline.

Possible cons:

• Maybe the suspension/tarp line wouldn't hold the tarp high enough above the hammock?
• Maybe the hammock would slid on the carabiners and your feet or head would wind up way above the other [simply fixed by looping around the carabiner]?
• Maybe a whoopie is enough to hold one half of the suspension, but a single whoopie holding the entire thing is too much?

This is what I was thinking, but I've never made or even used a hammock before, so I was curious for feedback before I tried to make it. If it's a bad idea, I'll just do whoopies and toggles. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Chloe

Good for you thinking of something new, but I think your first two "cons" sums up why I wouldn't bother trying it.

More often than not, the hammock suspension and tarp lines are at very different heights.

I'd guess the lines would slide through the carabiners and you may end up on your head eventually, maybe while shifting positions in the middle of the night.


Jerry

The first problem with this iconcept is that your tarp is in direct contact with your netting, depriving you of any headroom between netting and tarp.

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Originally Posted by uncle_ray_ray

The first problem with this iconcept is that your tarp is in direct contact with your netting, depriving you of any headroom between netting and tarp.

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I think the netting would be at the green line, while the tarp would be up at the red line.

Personally, I think it looks like it has some potential and you should definitely try it out. There might be a new learning curve with getting the carabiners the right distance apart, and I think you will need to do the double wrap, at least at one end, to stop the hammock creeping and putting you on your head in the night.

Also, I love your trees in the picture!

It took me a couple of minutes to visualize it, but not being a structural engineer or physicist, I can only guess that when you lie in the hammock, the "upper" ridgeline will bear most of the weight. Assuming you're using amsteel, the possible failure points would likely be at the biners (because of the sharp angle) and the bury. The lower portion of the suspension will likely function somewhat like a normal whoopie style, since it is still effectively just toggled directly to a tree strap, but instead of being fixed to the knot (and not the toggle :) ), it is "locked" in place by the upper line.

You would need to have a drip line somehow. On a normal whoopie, the free end takes care of this, but now your free end is at the highest point of your suspension. Water will run right down the lower portion into the hammock whipping.

The biggest con that I see is that you lose a lot of flexibility in the height of your tarp in relation to the hammock. It will probably be high enough for general use, but you will be more dependent on the distance between trees, as your hammock itself is a fixed length. To get the "magic 30* angle", you adjust the length of the upper line, pulling your hammock up or lowering it, but the upper line stays at the same height. You have no say on how high the tarp is in relation to the hammock.

I like the idea of having a single adjustment point, but I could see myself still using a separate tarp line so I can string it as high or low as I want.

It should be pretty easy to mock up at home just using 550 cord and a full pack in your hammock before diving in with amsteel and biners. You won't have the added variable of your body weight, but I think suspension angles and upper line height are of more concern just starting out.

this will work.iam not sure of attaching your tarp to it ,but try it and see.i did a similar or maybe the same suspension.
here
http://http://www.hammockforums.net/...ad.php?t=14691
i used it for about a year.the main reason i quit useing it is if i did not set it very tight,like a 15deg the ridge line portion would develop a sag.never could figure out why.


one thing to think of is the buried section will eventually pull through your carabiner,as you are adjusting it, when the trees are far apart(the bury will not stay in the middle.it will move depending on how far the trees are apart.).so when you are first tieing it up you have to figure the best place to put the bury from the unmoveing end of the line,as it relates to the carabiners so you get maximum ajustability.i think mine was about 8 inches from each side of hammock to about 16 feet.
this is more of a ucr then a whoopie.a ucr is strong when engaged but has the fault of sometimes slipping .so you will have to tension it somehow.maybe search for ucr and tensioning to find examples of this.
i would not worry about the hammock slideing on the carabiners,it will stay put.however as a pro you can easily slide the hammock anywhere between the trees you like.

Thanks for the feedback everyone :)

JerryW's right - the netting would be on the lower ridge-line, the tarp on the upper suspension line, so they wouldn't touch unless the tarp didn't make an obtuse enough angle to not touch the hammock on its way down. But like mentioned, maybe it's important to be able to vary the height of the tarp?

bindibadgi: thanks :) they're happy trees.

USMCStang: a drip-line would be important. I wouldn't've considered that until my hammock got soaked :-P and the sharp angle at the carabiners you bring up might make me nervous. It seems like it would be easy to find some hardware that would cradle the rope more in a similar fashion.

lonetracker: except for the incorporated [load bearing?] ridge-line, it's pretty similar! Awesome to see someone else try it. Did you drape your tarp over the upper line? How did that work out?

Now that I think about it, if it needed to be looped around a carabiner to keep from slipping that the back-and-forth adjustment might be more hassle and less simple than an extra whoopie :-)

I think after hearing all your feedback that I might try it once I have the standard working whoopie and toggles and actually get a feel for what works as far as tarps go.

Definitely worth trying, because you don't cut your amsteel, so nothing's lost if you need to switch to something else. I think lonetracker is correct - this is a UCR, not a whoopie sling, so make that bury extra long and think about a prussic on the end of it to maintain tension.

You've chosen good starting points for your research, and you've already gotten good feedback in this thread. Keep inventing!

Another Con is that you'll need considerably more line for this rig than you would for conventional whoopies.

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Originally Posted by SimpleRabbit

Thanks for the feedback everyone :)
lonetracker: except for the incorporated [load bearing?] ridge-line, it's pretty similar! Awesome to see someone else try it. Did you drape your tarp over the upper line? How did that work out?

Now that I think about it, if it needed to be looped around a carabiner to keep from slipping that the back-and-forth adjustment might be more hassle and less simple than an extra whoopie :-)

I think after hearing all your feedback that I might try it once I have the standard working whoopie and toggles and actually get a feel for what works as far as tarps go.

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i never tried to attach my tarp to it.it did get in the way of my tarp attachment a few times.try it and see if it works.
do not worry about looping your line around the carabiner.i did not have any slipping or movement of the hammock.it stayed put where i got in it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uncle_ray_ray

The first problem with this iconcept is that your tarp is in direct contact with your netting, depriving you of any headroom between netting and tarp.

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The ridge-line is the green line in the diagram, below the suspension, is it not?

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Originally Posted by USMCStang

...The biggest con that I see is that you lose a lot of flexibility in the height of your tarp in relation to the hammock. It will probably be high enough for general use, but you will be more dependent on the distance between trees, as your hammock itself is a fixed length. To get the "magic 30* angle", you adjust the length of the upper line, pulling your hammock up or lowering it, but the upper line stays at the same height. You have no say on how high the tarp is in relation to the hammock...

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I would think you have complete control of the height of the tarp when you set the tree huggers with the carabiners. The distance between the tarp and the hammock ridgeline will be controlled by the total length of the loops. Now, I agree that if you want the normal 30* angle on your suspension, you do become completely dependent on the distance between the trees to determine the gap between ridgeline and tarp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lonetracker

...this is more of a ucr then a whoopie.a ucr is strong when engaged but has the fault of sometimes slipping .so you will have to tension it somehow.maybe search for ucr and tensioning to find examples of this.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by WV

Definitely worth trying, because you don't cut your amsteel, so nothing's lost if you need to switch to something else. I think lonetracker is correct - this is a UCR, not a whoopie sling, so make that bury extra long and think about a prussic on the end of it to maintain tension...

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It could be done as either a UCR or a whoopie sling depending on how it is rigged. If using a whoopie, the adjustable loop would just need to pass through an eye of the line going to the other end of the hammock. More line, but I would probably recommend it given that everything is hooked to one line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lonetracker

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i would not worry about the hammock slideing on the carabiners,it will stay put.however as a pro you can easily slide the hammock anywhere between the trees you like.

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Unless it were fastened to a carabiner in some fashion, I would think slipping is a real danger. The whole load would want to shift so that the weight was at the lowest possible point. Definitely lay in it and get any shifting out of the way before attaching the tarp. I wonder if it would slip each time you sat and then laid down and again as you sat up as the center of gravity shifted up and down the hammock.

It probably makes setting the foot end higher a non-issue. It is self-adjusting. :D