How about a modular UQ?
Y'know, bein' a newbie to hammocks, UQ's look kinda half-baked. The full UQ's make sense to me, but the partial ones look like trouble-- sliding around, air gaps, not quite enough, or too much. $200 and your feet are still cold? What is THAT all about?
Seems to me that a full UQ body with modular pods, pockets or layers would be cool-- hopefully WARM. I want something that will zip, snap, or Velcro onto my hammock, stay put, and be easlily stowed for travel. All the fiddling with shock cords and mitten hooks and other gizmos is weak. I want to select for a variety of temperature ranges and weather, just like I do with a sleeping bag. C'mon guys, this is the 21st Century!
IMHO, anybody that manufactures a hammock for use in temperate and colder climates without a fitted and coordinated bottom insulation system is only making half a product. It's like selling a car that no one makes fuel for--- looks nice, but you aren't going anywhere with it.:mad:
Actually, the "detached" UQ, hammock and top quilts, not to mention hammock socks, do constitute a modular system. You pick your hammock with or without a bugnet depending on the bite count. Pick your tarp, big one if it's the rainy season, small one if it's not. Depending on the temperature, select from your vast quiver of UQ's and TQ's. And if camping in Minnesota wintertime, the hammock sock.
You go prepared for the conditions at hand without lugging any extra weight that you don't need.
Now I will admit that when I first discovered hammock forums and hammocks that the idea of "half a quilt" under me seemed, well, half cocked! However, I soon learned to trust in the wisdom of these good folks here and went of half cocked myself. To my surprise, I've never had a problem with the partial underquilt concept and love the fact that it saves weight (and money too as I make my own).
Of course, there are many that do prefer a full underquilt. But, I think the majority of backpackers are partial to the partial quilts (I just couldn't resist).
You make some good points, but I think you're not the first person to think about the UQ riddle the same way. I'd point out that I can select for temp, too, it just requires a little fiddlin' -- pull the UQ up or down to vent or not. Seems like there was a guy who experimented with attaching the quilt to the underside. And I'm just guessing that if it worked, it'd be in production. I think you'd run into compression of the UQ because the hammock material would stretch into it. But, hey, that's why we have this forum - all ideas welcomed!
Most of the UQ's out there today be they fractional or full are modular to an extent. Zippers and velcro were tried in the past on other products with only the Speer Snugfit (now discontinued) having much success. The reason that most now use shockcord IS to make it simpler to attach as well as making them adjustable for different desired configurations.
Originally Posted by DaleW
An example of their flexibility is the shock-cord suspension. Most 3 season UQ's are good down to the 20-30 F range. They reach their limits by being snugly attached with minimal airgaps. Take that same 3 season UQ to 55 F, and it can adjusted by allowing a looser fit or air gaps. If you took away the shock-cord and rigidly attached the UQ, it would be like a 3 season sleeping bag with no zipper (too hot or too cold but rarely just right).
The shock-cord suspension also allow for hanging a UQ for different hammocks and preferences. On a regular gathered end hammock, one user might like to sleep in the center while others prefer a diagonal lay from the left or right. An adjustable suspension affords one either option without being stuck with just one.
As far as simple goes, once an UQ has been dialed in to your preference, they normally just takes seconds to install. As far as easily packing goes, disconnecting an UQ and putting it in a stuff sack is about as easy as it gets without having your Sherpa do it for you.
As far as full versus fractional, that's just a matter of personal choice. Fractionals are smaller, less bulky and lighter while affording a wider variety of angle for you versus your feet. Full UQ's eliminate the need for 2 ounces of pad under our feet and have fewer drafts.
Compare hooking a couple of mitten hooks to the ends of your hammock to lining up two zippers or two pieces of velcro, and you'll probably find those mitten hooks are much simpler and faster to deal with while possessing fewer points of failure and less weight.
Good post, MAKE YOUR OWN!!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:
Indeed. It seems I have no other choice!
Originally Posted by stairguy
I've read lots of posts like, "it shifted off to one side at 3AM," or, "I use a pad for my feet," or "I had to fiddle with it to..."
Doesn't it make sense that if you drop a couple-three hunski on a hammock, it shouldn't be a search for something so primary to the use of the product as keeping warm in temps below 70F?
Think how well the topside is covered with well integrated insect sceens and tarps.
The current crop of UQ's may be of excellent quality, but they are tacked on and not what I would call modular design. Imagine getting a nice digital SLR and ordering up a lens that might fit, and it might work in the conditions you have in mind, and it is held on with bungee cords. Please.
And the idea that you can use a standard 20" hiking pad is laughable. They are uncomfortable and don't give effective coverage.
Here's what is needed:
*Take any production hammock and add a mounting system-- zippers, snaps, Velcro-- anything that will hold the UQ in place accurately, firmly, and with a good air seal.
*There should be provisions for venting if the UQ is too warm.
*The UQ should be water resistant but breathable.
*The UQ should be compressible for easy transport.
*The UQ should take advantage of lightweight fabrics, fillers and ultralight design principles
*Both down and synthetic fillers should be offered.
*There should be a selection of UQ's that can work alone or together to cover a range of temperatures: summer, 3-season, 4-season.
For example, Velcro fastenings would be forgiving for 3rd parties to make accessories, it adjusts easily for fit, and allows stacking layers/modules.
So we have a Hennessy or a Warbonnet with some Velcro down the sides. A simple fabric cover could be offered with insulation pads to fit inside. A thinner synthetic or down UQ could made to the pattern for warmer weather and basic use. It would be simple to have modules to fit the foot area, or add insulation to one area or another. If you have a partial UQ, other modules could be made to fill in the areas it doesn't cover. And a complete UQ could be offered that will work in tandem with the partial one.
If you want something more universal, make a universal under cover that will accept a coordinated system of modules. The under cover would just be an adapter.
But no guessing if it will fit, no lowest-common-denominator fit or make-do fastening system, just a well designed, well made, COORDINATED system of insulation.
My $1.26 :D
If you DIY'd an under quilt that loft to an inch or so . . .
and velcro'd it on . . .
that would work for cool temps . . .
but then for when it got colder, if you had a second one at an inch or so loft
and you velcro'd it under the first one . . . :D
Then for super sub zero you could have a third UQ to stick on . . .
now you have it figured for almost any temp.
You just set me to thinkin' :laugh:
That's the idea. You have to accommodate the extra loft, so maybe the fatter ones would go on the outside.
Originally Posted by Bradley
Maybe the summer one could have asym insulation-- just a layer of Thinsulate on the diagonal with a thin windproof cover that goes end to end-- a double bottom in reality. Maybe the next stage would be fillers for the empty ends of the summer cover like a Clark. Then a fat center section for colder stuff, and a full cover over that to keep Shug warm at -26F (I would go home). Or just a lofty full cover. Once you have a consistent way to fasten it all, the possibilities are endless. If someone comes up with some new high tech insulation or fabric, it's no problem to retrofit. But it doesn't have to look like the clothesline exploded or weigh 6 tons.
actually posted something similar bout a top quilt modullar system using the usgi MSS thats a three layer system rated down to -30 but its synthetic so its a brick but it should work with the two sleep bags and goretex bivvy
Carry a 1 season/summer weight quilt for warmest temps.
Carry a three season quilt for mid temps.
Stack the two together for winter/coldest temps.
Thats been an answer for many.
The most forgiving, modular suspension is the shockcord.. It allows for the quilt to shift and flow with the hammock fabric while the occupant moves inside the hammock. It also allows for the greatest range of adjustment, i.e., loosening for venting, or sliding along the hammock length for different body sizes or positions.
Any velcro, snap or zipper will add weight.
Any solid attachment to the hammock will limit versatility. Many attempts have been tried in the history of hammocks, and the shockcord has won out. Thats why so many (read all) manufacturers use a s.c. suspension.
Mac sells additional layers for the IX uq. Each insert has matching loops so it can be stacked to follow to main uq.
Experiment with your concept, it has merit.
But, I think you'll notice that a completely attached uq will need to be a lot bigger/bulkier than a free floating/adjustable quilt to provide a similar seal and coverage and warmth. Or, its attached size will limit the hangers positioning in the hammock. If I need to switch sides during the night, I simply reach down and adjust the quilt to follow my body.
A s.c. quilt allows it to be transfered from one hammock to another relatively easily. Yes, there is a slight fiddle factor of possibly adjusting the s.c. to fit the other hammock. But once it is adjusted, it allows the same free floating capabilities. An attached quilt will need all hammocks to have the same matching attachment points, be it velcro or snaps, etc. That will limit its popularity.
Most 4-season quilts need extra support due to the added weight of extra down or synthetic. Weight is a penalty a winter camper has to accept.
Having a quilt that can support the extra weight will need thicker s.c., or have auxilary tie point to support the quilt off the ridgeline.
Making a main quilt that is adaptable will need to have the same extra support, which will mean when you only need the main warm weather quilt, you still carry the heavier s.c. full-time.
Sliding a windscreen into the gap between the quilt and hammock is a simple solution to boosting the warmth, yet limits breathability.
Modularity already exists. Its what you want to carry. Most folks carry a sit pad and use it to add warmth the quilt.
The peapod was an all covering, no fiddle form of downy goodness, yet its overall size and bulk made it less popular for backpacking. Cost of down is another factor. So folks evolved and shrunk the size of the uq, to make do for the pack space/weight needs. A smaller quilt also had less down so that reduced pricing (some). Down is pricey and the process of manufacture is detailed and tedious, so the prices charged reflect that. But down is king as far as compactness and warmth.
I have a self-modded climashield underquilt that is full coverage and has taken me to 8* comfortably. Yet its sheer size and bulk are unneccessary for warmer temps, yet if needed I can still loosen the s.c. to maintain comfort on warmer nights.