Originally Posted by Troglodyte
Being the newbie here I'm not trying to ruffle anybody's feathers. Just trying to provide some numbers. Granted these are "textbook" numbers and do not take into consideration ANY variables.
I apologize for not picking up on the bending concern. Coming from a little rappelling background knowingly side loading a biner was avoided at most every cost. I just won't do it. My background and how I wrap a tree excluded the thought of how others might do it. My apologies. Side loading a 5 kN biner would not be good. Schneiderlein you are right. Given the right conditions you can make anything fail. A knob of the tree on the gate would be bad...at least for the gate.
And not to get into arguments of thoughts, feelings, and theories I will concede that you should always over-engineer everything and I am guilty of that many times over.
When a perfectly fine honest-to-goodness climbing biner can be had for $7.00 at the local, slightly overpriced, outdoor shop, putting your peace of mind hanging off of an "accessory" biner just isn't worth it for a logo.
Pardon me if I have come across cynical, beligerent, or terse. I mean no harm. I teach HS science so I tend to look at everything through tinted (or maybe tainted) vision and like to deal in facts. And one fact is that I am relatively new here and new to hanging. So I'll shut up now.
But Youngblood, you do have me thinking about my "halving" statement. I'll have to think about your point...if for no other reason than you got me thinking about it. Time to go revisit vectors...and maybe some experimentation.
I have no problem, sorry if I came off that way. You didn't come across in any negative way. Discussing technical things can be difficult in on-line forums because it is sometimes difficult to get across the specific, seemingly minor details and at times those make all the difference.
I didn't think about vectors earlier either, but when you go back and look at vectors, I think to half the forces the 'two-halves' would have to be along the same vector trajectory and in-line with the force being halved... wouldn't they?