I will be experimenting this year as well.
Excellent, as it appears there are a few other brave souls who are going to look into the advantages, if any, of various VB approaches this winter. May it work out well for Y'all!
I also hope to expand my research. I just wish I would get off my lazy butt and get myself some Stephenson's Warmlite VB/Fuzzystuff pants. I have had the shirt, socks and gloves for a few years now, and I have found them more pleasant to use than my previous attempts using a VB over thin long johns. They are not good looking but they are cheap. But for the pants they want me to send them a pair of pants I fit in so they can sew them to fit right. The shipping of these pants would greatly add to the cost most likely, so I have not yet ordered any. I have instead faked it with using my "waterproof/breathable" rain pants, which some claim work fairly well as a VB, though I have kind of doubted it. So my testing included true VB shirt, socks and gloves but I was using WPB rain pants on my legs. I lacked a VB hood.
So, here was my last VB test:
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...-VBs-and-HHSSs
This was also at my personal best, though only 6F. The main thing I took from this was that I was very warm(feet probably overheating) even though I was using relatively little insulation top and bottom, and I was very dry. There was apparently no condensation- though I was inside a sort of sock- other than what accumulated on my fleece frost kind of bib near my face. This was 4 or 5 *F colder than I had ever been before(in a hammock). On the previous occasions at 10-12F I had thicker insulation top and bottom ( either in an augmented PeaPod or with an MW4 UQ ). And while I feel I was adequately warm on those other tests, I was even warmer and dryer this time, and definitely could have gone lower(below zero?) if nature had cooperated. Did the VBs play a big part in that? Probably. I don't know what else would have, though on top I'm sure the HH Overcover was a help. But on the bottom I had never gone below 20F(maybe 30F)with this system without also adding insulated clothing under the HH pad. My previous PB was 14F using that approach. This time maybe even more toasty at 6F but no added clothing. I don't know what could account for that other than VB. But what confuses that is that I had used a VB in this system(always) in the form of the space blanket. But maybe being zipped inside VB clothing makes for a much more efficient VB? I don't know.
Who knows, maybe the frost bib was a major help, by keeping my breath from soaking the insulation(or at least the shell) of my TQ in the chest area? There is much to discover!
Here are some good basics on VB use:
http://andrewskurka.com/2011/vapor-b...y-application/
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ners-%28VBL%29
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...Vapor-Barriers
Does or can a pad work as a vapor barrier? My pad is Oware or gossamer gear one eighth x 40 x 72 in a double layer hammock and will use underquilt with pad if it gets cold. Thanks for your thoughts
A pad is just a small area of a VB localized just in a portion of the back/legs.
A true VB will keep the water vapor coming off of our bodies from leaving the "atmosphere" of the body. It's like a minature, body shaped greenhouse upto a large "tent" like structure for our purposes. This is the good and bad of it, the pluses and negatives. It needs to be monitored and mastered when in dangerously cold temps to keep from going hyperthermic due to damp clothing/skin meeting the cold.
A pad can feel damp and clamy in a small area, but the vapor can escape thru 3/4 of the uncovered area. That's why some feel the damp of a pad and some don't due to the escape of the vapor(or lack of) from TQ/SB.
Definitely test in a close proximity to an escape pod(house or car)
Enjoy and have fun with your family, before they have fun without you
I personally love them and looking forward to using them this winter in Tahoe with my puppy. There is a learning curve to them, but in my opinion, they are the best for walking in winter.
Fronkey
I don't know how I missed this one (probably outside camping:>)
I've used/experimented with limited VBs with results that impressed me (bags on my feet, GG pad with a flannel liner, a tyvek pod/sock, and a spaceblanket between UQ and hammock). Technically not a VB, but my shoulders and down tyvek pod/sock and bags on my feet are favorites, with the spaceblanket between UQ and hammock currently being evaluated.
I'll be experimenting some more this winter with VBs and will be following along - I strive to learn from others experiences then test on my own.
P.S. I've been following BillyBob's VB posts for the last couple years/winters with interest - great info. On the next nasty day here I'll read through the above links/info. to get caught up. My current take is to use VBs where the moisture is and keep my head/breath vented outside - so VB the feet, core (arm pits being key), and crotch (from the shoulders and down).
Last edited by oldpappy; 12-15-2014 at 08:49.
Enjoying the simple things in life -
Own less, live more.
Not a newlywed yet. 28 more days to go, but I have been busy with this wedding and TRUST ME, I would much rather be talking gear than doing that. lol
I get back from the honeymoon on January 23rd and hopefully I can start cranking out more videos then, vapor barriers are at the top of that list.
Fronkey
Please comment on this (I plan to keep my head/breathing outside the VB/insulation in a HUG style window sheer enclosure:
During previous experiments with a GG pad in the low 20F range, I found that a flannel (cotton) pillowcase over my GG pad absorbed and stored the condensation moisture nicely while my poly/synthetic insulation stayed dry to the touch (I didn't weigh it). So my moisture passed thru synthetic insulation, condensed at the pad, and was absorbed by the cotton.
What I had in mind to try next (at home) is a layered approach - an thin insulating layer next to the skin (thin lambs wool sweater and poly long johns/socks), flannel/cotton sheet outside that to absorb condensation, the VB outside that and then the TQ/UQ insulation.
VB thoughts/questions:
Does it really have to be a 100% barrier? Would a dry ducks rain suit work (limited breathablity)?
Can the VB be a large commercial trashbag or is a suit (jacket/pants/socks) better? I guess the micro-climate is smaller with a suit but how much difference does that make?
If bag, what about a mylar bag or SOL bivy?
Stephenson's VBs looks interesting at $30 for the shirt and $8 socks - what material is on the inside? How do you clean it/ how much cleaning is require?
P.S. It rarely gets below 20F here so this is just fun/interesting experimentation for me (the wife questions the sanity in it), and Shug's -40F record is also safe from me ever challenging it:>)
Last edited by oldpappy; 12-15-2014 at 19:13.
Enjoying the simple things in life -
Own less, live more.
I haven't used VBs before, but I'm definitely planning to do some experimenting this winter. I have a bunch of boy scouts we are taking into the mountains this winter and so I'll teach them a little about the concept before we go....a group experiment of sorts. I'm a little nervous that the scouts will be...scouts, so the first time or two I'll have some back up options for the 2am wimpering from the tents around me.
@BillyBob58 - Does the Stephenson's Warmlite clothing help with the moist feeling mentioned by others when using a VB?
-dbass
I have a summer UQ made out of Insultex that I use as a VB on the inside of my winter quilt. I've had good succcess with it. I don't sweat very much so moisture has not been a problem. I also use plastic bags on my feet in my boots and find they make a difference in warmth. It seem counter-intuitive at first but as per VB discussions I've seen, it seems to make sense.
Don't let life get in the way of living.
Bookmarks