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  1. #1
    Senior Member Osulagh's Avatar
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    Humid Weather Insulation Questions.

    This was brought up in my build thread (found here) about using synthetic filling instead down, and since then I've been wrecking by brain on what I should do.

    TL;DR: Water-resistant down or synthetic in 100% humid and rainy condition?

    Ok, my situation:

    - Going to Japan for three months, and saving some money by stealth camping (and while on a trail).
    - Expect rain every day (not all day, in quick showers) and 90%+ humidity. No chance of soaking my equipment.
    - Lowest temp expected: 60F. Probably around 70-80F most the time.
    - Will be less than a few hours walk from civilization at all times (no thru-hiking, very rural city skipping).
    - I sleep cold, as 65F starts to chill my feet and butt, but nothing I can't get over with socks and sitting on something.

    So, I'm not in extreme danger of hypothermia, and I can certainly hit a dryer nearly every day if I have to. My question is: Is down really that susceptible to humidity, and will I be in constant trouble with it?

    I can see using synthetic for if I was day(s) walk from civilization and was in constant rainy conditions. But I'm not. I really like the compressibility and lightness of down since all I'll be bringing are thin quilts anyways.

    Then comes water-resistant down. After some research, I've found it does seem to help against humidity, but isn't as fool-proof as the down companies would like us to believe with their examples. If I go this route, could I still be fine with my quilts? I could let them air out underneath the tarp before I sleep, and throw them in a dryer when I clean my clothing every couple days.

    From there, I also understand that fabric can be a deciding factor. I've heard that Dutchwear Argon 67+90 might not be as water-resistant as appose to other lightweight fabrics--but the price is right at the moment since they both are on sale, and have been cheaper than most like M90 and others. Would fabric make a difference with humidity, or just solid water on the fabric?

    And... underquilt covers? Hmm...

    See my dilemma? Anyone have any experience with down in humid climates? Should I stop worrying like a ninny and start sewing?

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Drying clothes every couple of days? Only worried about humidity and lows of 60F maybe, at the worst? Yes, stop worrying about it. Certainly with treated down such as UGQs and others sell. It has stood up to some pretty severe testing by UGQs, I think it might be even better than synthetics or mighty close. But even regular down should not be a problem under the conditions you describe.

  3. #3
    Senior Member SirMarkos's Avatar
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    The new treatment they do on down these days and the DWRs they put on fabrics almost completely eliminates the worries of wet down. Short of dunking your quilt, you'll be perfectly fine.
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  4. #4
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    While I think down is great and is what I'd rather have in my situations, personally I think if you're really that worried about it, you should actually go synthetic. Above 40°F, synthetic makes more sense to me overall. The difference in weight of a 50° down and synthetic quilt is relatively negligible as is the compressibility. Down still wins, but by a much smaller margin compared to sub-40°. Synthetic is also cheaper and will dry much faster. I guess it depends on how careful you are with your gear, but I'd rather have 1 less thing to worry about.

    But in the end, truth be told, the wet down scary stories are largely overblown. Down will work just fine, too. Pick what works within your budget and style of gear care.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Floridahanger's Avatar
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    I believe ducks have no problem with their down, nor do geese

    Moisture in the quilts can be lessened by the new down for sure, but, also think of the shell. DWR material will help in keeping dew and other large particles of water (may not help with vapor) off of your quilts.

    Good luck on this planned trip.
    Enjoy and have fun with your family, before they have fun without you

  6. #6
    Senior Member hutzelbein's Avatar
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    I have read a lot on down vs. synthetic and information is pretty contradictory. I don't think that the general idea "synthetic trumps down when wet" is quite true. For one thing, people who said they had experience in these matters (not just hearsay) said that both types of insulation suck when drenched. You won't get much warmth out of it if you let your sleeping bag fall in the river - doesn't matter if it is down or synthetic.

    If I understood it correctly, synthetic has an advantage in very cold conditions, where the humid air created by your body rises through the sleeping bag, but condenses while still on the inside of the bag. If you use the bag day after day, this humidity builds up and starts clumping the down. I have also read, though, that some people solve this problem by using two layers; a down bag as a "base layer", and a synthetic bag as a "shell". This way the humidity supposedly condenses inside the synthetic layer, not the down.

    One question I have always asked myself, though, is why down still seems to be the only insulation that is used by those crazy people who climb the really big mountains? There can't be more extreme conditions, and their insulation of choice apparently is down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floridahanger View Post
    I believe ducks have no problem with their down, nor do geese
    True, but then they are grooming their down/feathers all the time by putting some type of fatty body secretion on it. This keeps the water out. If you take that away, they're not going to live a lot longer...

    After seeing UGQ's laundry thread, I'd probably go with treated down on a trip like yours. You're not going to die if you should indeed start developing problems with your down insulation, and as you said, you could fix it quite easily. If I were to make a 6-months expedition into the Arctic, I would probably do a lot more research and try to talk to people who have actually been there and done that.

    If you go with down, please report back how it worked out (or not).

  7. #7
    Senior Member SirMarkos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osulagh View Post
    See my dilemma? Anyone have any experience with down in humid climates? Should I stop worrying like a ninny and start sewing?
    Thanks in advance!
    I live in Kentucky. Here in the Ohio Valley, we are notorious for our very humid climate. Several months back, I took both of my down quilts to Red River Gorge. While I was there, for three straight days, it rained from the time we arrived up-to-the-minute we left. So we are talking 95 to 100% humidity the entire time. I also had splash up from the rain onto the bottom of my UQ. So needless to say, by conventional wisdom this was an extremely terrible environment for down according to the naysayers.

    While not ideal, my quilts from HG performed flawlessly. I was not only warm and comfortable the entire trip but because of the DWR treatment on the UQ fabric, The splash up literally beaded up and never penetrated. I simply took my PakTowel and wiped off any excess that I found.

    People that own down know that it's never as big of a problem as it's made out to be. Especially now with all of the modern tech and fabrics specifically designed for the outdoors.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Osulagh's Avatar
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    Thanks ya'll. This is what I love forums for: Kicks in the head.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Yes, stop worrying about it.
    Got; will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by VoiceOfTreason View Post
    While I think down is great and is what I'd rather have in my situations, personally I think if you're really that worried about it, you should actually go synthetic.
    I'm not that worried... but I'm questioning it because I'll be spending $100-200 to make my own quilts, and might have them utterly fail on my out of country. Then I'm packing near two pounds of worthlessness.

    But in the end, truth be told, the wet down scary stories are largely overblown. Down will work just fine, too. Pick what works within your budget and style of gear care.
    Oddly enough, I haven't heard direct horror stories. Mostly the people who are warning others of something. I've heard of more people having good experience with down in humid climates as opposed to people who have had bad experiences. Hearsay, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floridahanger View Post
    I believe ducks have no problem with their down, nor do geese
    In some of the tests I've seen of regular down vs treated down, people do state that down has natural water repellent properties and that's why it already holds up. So, I guess treatment would help this--though I know it's not a sure thing.

    Good luck on this planned trip.
    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by hutzelbein View Post
    After seeing UGQ's laundry thread, I'd probably go with treated down on a trip like yours.
    I saw and read the same thread before, but my skepticism got me for it mostly. No producer is going to shoot themselves in the leg, ya know? But, still, there's some good news in it.

    If you go with down, please report back how it worked out (or not).
    Hopefully, it'll go without a hitch. Though it'll be nearly a year until I can produce some results; my trip starts in May, and I'll be disconnected for a while. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by SirMarkos View Post
    I live in Kentucky. Here in the Ohio Valley, we are notorious for our very humid climate. Several months back, I took both of my down quilts to Red River Gorge. While I was there, for three straight days, it rained from the time we arrived up-to-the-minute we left. So we are talking 95 to 100% humidity the entire time. I also had splash up from the rain onto the bottom of my UQ. So needless to say, by conventional wisdom this was an extremely terrible environment for down according to the naysayers.

    While not ideal, my quilts from HG performed flawlessly. I was not only warm and comfortable the entire trip but because of the DWR treatment on the UQ fabric, The splash up literally beaded up and never penetrated. I simply took my PakTowel and wiped off any excess that I found.
    Thanks! This is exactly what I wanted to hear from a personal experience. Though splash up worries me a bit.

    Thanks again everyone! Now I should get to sewing.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osulagh View Post
    Though splash up worries me a bit.
    Nothing an undercover can't fix if you're really concerned about it...

  10. #10
    Senior Member Osulagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VoiceOfTreason View Post
    Nothing an undercover can't fix if you're really concerned about it...
    I think, if this becomes a problem, I'll rig up my bag cover to protect the bottom.

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