Grand Canyon Trip

**AUTiger** · 11-07-2014, 16:25

A few months ago a friend of mine started posting pictures to Facebook about his recent hiking trip to Glacier National. I immediately became 100% jealous/motivated. I called him up a few days later and we agreed that we needed to do an epic hiking/camping trip somewhere awesome. I also promised myself that I would start doing more hiking and camping. All that said, we've thrown together a nice little trip to Grand Canyon in hopes to conquer the infamous Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim hike... that is South to North and back on the Bright Angel and North Kaibab trials. The entire hike is ~54 miles not including the day trips we're taking while we're in the base of the canyon and on the North Rim. We've decided to spread it out and spend just over a week doing the hike in early-mid May. It's not about speed; it's about having a good time, reconnecting with a friend I haven't seen in years and ultimately spending some time in one of the most beautiful places on Earth.

I read somewhere (Ultimate Hang, I think) that hammock hanging IN the canyon is nearly impossible so I've decided to go to ground and use my Eureka Solitaire tent. I may still use my hammock when we camp in Mather Campground the night before our trip starts but that's going to be a last minute call and not really going in my bag. I'm aiming for a 15lb baseline before food and water and less than 25lbs total. I want to push that to 20 if I can.

I'm planning on doing several shakedown hikes before my trip and figuring out where I can trim my pack weight down. We also intend to send a care package to ourselves on the North Rim for re-supply. I am planning on carrying an in-line water filtration system/platypus and 4 days of food (MREs/Camp Meals). We plan to get a meal or two from the Phantom Ranch at the base of the canyon (I understand you can pre-order dinner and a boxed lunch for the next day) and of course utilize the store on the North Rim if possible.

Itenerary looks like this:
Night Campsite
1 Mather Campground
2 Bright Angel
3 Bright Angel
4 Cottonwood
5 North Rim
6 North Rim
7 Cottonwood
8 Bright Angel or Indian Garden
9 South Rim Lodge

Things I want to know:
1) Has anyone on this forum ever done this hike?
- If you have, what did your backcountry request look like? (i.e. number of stops, distance traveled, etc)
2) Have there been any changes to the hammocking situation in the canyon?
3) Are there any tips or things you think I'm missing?
4) Do any of the forum members have any advice regarding submitting my backcountry application? (Do you work at the park? How can I make sure my permit is approved?)
5) Do the seasoned hikers here think I should carry more food?
6) When you guys go hiking in these well-established parks, do you carry personal GPS locators?

Any advice or help would be appreciated. Thanks!

**ringtail-THFKAfood** · 11-07-2014, 17:26

Mather Campground is hammock friendly.

You can fill out a permit application on the Park Service site. I fax mine on the 1st of the month, I think, four months before the trip. They shuffle the faxes and start issuing permits on the 2nd. If you submit an application for more than 10 miles per day you will get the "you're gonna die" letter and have to fill out a hiker information form.

The North Rim Lodge and General Store does not open until mid May - check the dates. The ranger programs are very good, but do not start until mid May. I do not know where you would send a mail drop until mid May.

Here is the dilemma - I do not hike there after the first week of May until mid October because of the heat. The north rim closes about mid October.

The stew dinner at Phantom is great and the steak dinner is good also, but I prefer the stew. Served family style and the dessert is always chocolate cake. Breakfast are good, but overpriced. I do not like the box lunches. The Cantina is open except during meal services and is a great place to hang around.

Water management for a rim2rim is very easy if you stay off the South Kaibab trail.

I carry a SPOT. My wife likes getting the nightly text message.

To go from Bright Angel Campground to Indian Garden I generally hike the South Kaibab Trail to the "tipoff" then take the Tonto Trail through Pipe Canyon to Indian Garden. The remote section will give you a feel for what the rest of the backcountry feels like.

**pgibson** · 11-07-2014, 19:44

Ringtail has some great advice.

#1 The Canyon is amazing! Amazing. Every picture you have ever seen does not come close to doing it justice.

#2 Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research, Research!

#3 https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...-in-the-Desert

#4 Phantom is managed by a separate entity from the park so you need to get in touch with them about any meals....We tried to reserve meals for our trip 4 months in advance and they were already booked up. No dinner for us at Phantom. We did have some beers and snickers bars as well as pick up some electrolyte mixes there.

#5 hammocks are not prohibited exactly....but touching the trees/vegetation below the rim is. There are options to hang from the shelters at Indian, and from the pack poles to picnic tables. Now this takes a good bit of creativity as well as being willing to be inches off the ground. The park is very concerned about damaging the trees to the extent that you can't hang a clothes line up to dry stuff out...don't drape your sweaty T shirt over a bush, you will get talked to. Speak directly with the Backcountry office at the park about hanging....don't just show up and plan to do anything. Get it worked out or plan to be on the ground.

#6 Get going on getting your backcountry permit started right away. Your looking at being there during a very busy part of the year and it will be packed.

No need for a spot or GPS or the like. In late February we were never more than minutes from other hikers. Passed multiple mule trains, passed by rangers making shift changes from one camp to another. You won't be alone by any measure on the central trails. The main corridor trails are small human highways. It's amazing but don't get the idea that your in the Backcountry by any means. The campgrounds were full to the brim each night for us.

Water wise I would cary a sawyer mini as a just in case but for the most part you don't need a filter in the canyon. The water stations every few miles on BA will cover you pretty well. Faucets at 1.5 mile, 3 mile, IG, river rest, BA are all spaced out that with 1-2 litters you should be good on that side....might want it on the North side of the trail. No water access on Kibab if I remember my reading correct to budget what you need if you go down that way.

On Food, yes take as much as your comfortable carrying. Go with high calorie stuff/minimal weight as possible. I ate about 15 king size snickers (you can get them at the canteen at Phantom) and at least a dozen Gatorade/electrolyte mixes. You will want more than that being in a much hotter time of year.

Also work out as much as possible. You want to be in great shape. Do a bunch of test hikes with your set up but also climb stairs, ride a bike, do a good bit of cardio but work those legs and then work them some more. We all did ok but we saw the full spread of other hikers, from runners making a day loop to people with full size camp chairs that looked like they could fall over dead any step.

Take tons of pictures and video.

**EZbreezy** · 11-09-2014, 18:56

Ringtail and Pgibson speak the gospel. We did a rim-to-rim this past August and the Rangers were nazis about hanging. Water is not an issue.

I think you had a typo in your iteniary at #2, which should be Indian Garden. Spend at least one night at Indian garden and head to Plateau Point for the sunset. You'll also enjoy the north rim much more than the south rim, so kudos for taking 2 days there.

Don't fall into the trap of bringing too much food. All the exertion diminishes your appetite, and you're so **** tired, even boiling water seems like too much effort. You won't be able to replace all the calories you burn hiking, it's simple as that. There's nothing as humbling as hiking pounds of uneaten food out of the Grand Canyon.

For God's sake, hang your pack and stash your food in the ammo cans at all times. The rodents are brazen and will get into your pack even when you're an arms length away.

Most Importantly get started hiking early in the morning. 5:00 am. Sunrises are beautiful, it's cooler, but getting to the next campground early means you get to pick a site instead of settling for what's left.

It's not an easy hike. Luckily the teams canyon shuttle runs at least once a day and can take you back for $80 pp.

**AUTiger** · 11-10-2014, 22:37

I appreciate all the advice, guys. I've got my permit on standby. I just have to wait until January to submit it. I've been to the Canyon a couple of times (both rims). I'm really looking forward to this trip though. As far as working out goes, I'm in the military so I've already been hitting it really hard. The two nights at the BA are basically to allow us to hike around the area. We're taking it slow and trying to enjoy ourselves.

**AUTiger** · 12-18-2014, 11:21

I'm putting the finishing touches on my trip and I am either missing something or it's just not there. I don't see that reservations are required for any of the campgrounds below the rim. I am making the assumption that once my Backcountry permit is approved, we just have a spot guaranteed? I would further assume that it's first-come-first serve. I know we are supposed to hang a copy of the permit on each tent when we there. It just doesn't say that we need to book sites. Anyone with experience please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks!

You can check out my pack list and blog here: Hike The West I'm aiming to get below 20lbs baseline. I have a few ideas and I'm already seeing some areas where I can chop a pound or two.

**pgibson** · 12-18-2014, 11:46

Yes should your permit get approved then there is 1 spot at the CG of choice for the night you have planned. The BC office approves based on group size, site availability for each CG for each night. You con't decide to layover an extra night outside of your plan as they will not have an extra site. When we went each and every spot in the CG's were taken each night, no extra. So getting the permit gets you your spot for the night listed and no exception. It is first come first served and many people hit the trail very early to beat any heat and to get better choice of spot in the CG. If you hike slow or get a late start then count on getting a spot without much shade or right next to the bathrooms.

**AUTiger** · 12-18-2014, 13:28

Originally Posted by pgibson

Yes should your permit get approved then there is 1 spot at the CG of choice for the night you have planned. The BC office approves based on group size, site availability for each CG for each night. You con't decide to layover an extra night outside of your plan as they will not have an extra site. When we went each and every spot in the CG's were taken each night, no extra. So getting the permit gets you your spot for the night listed and no exception. It is first come first served and many people hit the trail very early to beat any heat and to get better choice of spot in the CG. If you hike slow or get a late start then count on getting a spot without much shade or right next to the bathrooms.

I figured as much. Thanks for the advice. I knew that we had to stick to the itinerary they choose. I know that I have to book my campgrounds outside the rim. I'm submitting a couple of different options at this point. Primary is a bit different than the one posted above.

Arrive - Camp at Mather
Day1: SK to BACG
Day2: NK to CWCG
Day3: NK to North Rim Campground
Day4: NK to CWCG
Day5: NK to IGCG
Day6: BA Trail to Lodge

One other thing: Are the "RV" sites on the North Rim better for groups than getting multiple tent sites? According to the website, the tent sites are limited to two tents and they both have to go on the "pad" that they provide at each site. We have a group of 4-6 (still waiting for people to confirm). Should we just go ahead and pay the $50 for a group site to guarantee availability and all that?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I tend to lean on anyone with experience.

P.S. - Loving my New River UQ.

**ringtail-THFKAfood** · 12-18-2014, 15:40

Do not get hung up on the "tent" thing. I did a five night hike in October and slept cowboy using my tent as a ground sheet. The permits allow a max of six people, but few of the sites listed have enough room for 6 single tents. You probably can get three people under a hex hammock tarp set up with hiking poles. They say two tents, but you also can have a canopy over your picnic table to eat.

The BackCountry office thinks the day from Cottonwood to Indian Garden is too many miles.