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  1. #11
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyanderson View Post
    Hi All,

    Now that I have my first hammock (HH Explorer) and I've actually crawled inside, I'm thinking about making a DIY UQ. Because I live in upstate NY and will be camping with the scouts from now until June, I'm expecting some cold nights - maybe down to 10*F in the dead of winter.

    I'm guessing there is no 'perfect' UQ or answer for my situation, but knowing that it's gonna get cold, I'm thinking of using two layers of Climashield, either the 5oz XP or the CS Combat. Is it reasonable to think that such and UQ combined with wearing clothes to bed and maybe layering something between the UQ and the hammock is workable? I'm hoping someone with some real world experience has some guidance...

    Thanks,
    Mike
    It probably is reasonable to think that 2 layers of 5 oz CS in combination with synthetic clothing ( which won't compress as much under you) will get you to about 10*F. And especially with a little boost from a vapor barrior and/or a wind proof outer shell. But depending on how warm you sleep, 2 layers of 5 oz by itself might might be cutting it pretty close.

    Cannibal and Warbonnetguy should be able to speak directly to this, based on their personal experience. WBG's first torso UQ used FOUR layers of 2.5 oz CS XP. Which should be about the same in total CLO as what you are considering. If memory serves, Cannibal( a very warm sleeper) was able to stay warm with this combo to around zero, while the manufacturer- WBG- was OK at some higher temp, maybe 10*F or 15*F. I have one of these, but I have not tested it below 27*F.

    When you first test it for yourself, it might be wise to have a piece of closed cell foam pad for backup.

    If you make something for yourself, I highly recommend a differential cut design so that you can pull it snug against your back, eliminating any gap/drafts without having to worry about compressing loft. I think that is a real key to easy UQ success, without having to go through too much of a learning curve. I think some people report being a good bit warmer with regular UQs than others, and I suspect a lot of that difference is success( or lack thereof) with adjusting adjusting the quilt just right. Which is very easy with something like a JRB Mt.Wash, Speer Snugfit( both usable on a HH) or WB Yeti. Or my WB torso length CS UQ. (These last two probably need a zipper mod to be used on an HH, so they can be adjusted once you are in the hammock).

    A Speer Pea Pod, OTOH, is one non-dif cut design that has a great advantage, though it would also require a zip mod for use with HH. You also have to be careful not to adjust it too tightly so as to compress loft with the Pea Pod. But, the advantage of a non-dif cut is the addition of clothing or pads and/or space blankets and/or whatever to the bottom, after adjusting the pod a little looser than normally, adding to fill up the space. This makes it easy to take the already very conservatively rated(20*F) Pea Pod to zero or below. Just by using whatever you are not already wearing to bed.

  2. #12
    New Member nyanderson's Avatar
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    Thank you nacra533 for the sewing info and the link, which will hopefully save me a bit of frustration when switching from canvas to ripstop.

    And Thank You to BillyBob58 for your reply as well, I really appreciate it! I think I'll go with two layers of 5oz XP. Should make for a fun project!

  3. #13
    Senior Member Merganser's Avatar
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    I made a differential cut UQ with climashield, two layers of combat. I had some questions about the diff cut and a thread with those, suggestions and what I did can be found here. I think it will be helpful.

    How much insulation is a pretty personal thing. I have not tested mine in cold weather yet, I don't expect to get below freezing with it though, maybe not even that far. I'd think 3 layers of combat would do it. I'd recommend more layers over thicker layers becuase you can do the diff cut better and the insulation is somewhat irregular in thickness and more layers will compensate for that.

  4. #14
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merganser View Post
    ............ I'd recommend more layers over thicker layers becuase you can do the diff cut better and the insulation is somewhat irregular in thickness and more layers will compensate for that.
    Plus, you can remove layers to save weight when it is not very cold.

  5. #15
    Senior Member teletrekker's Avatar
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    This is an ongoing theme/question in this forum; one that I have been struggleing with since I received my explorer about a month ago. I'm in the same boat you are in. I spend time on the trail and in the backcountry year round and was concerned about staying warm in my HH. I've read everything I could get my eyes on in this forum and others, thought about a DIY UQ, the SS, and commercial UQ's.

    Price is a limiting factor for me and the conclusion I came to was to go with the SS. It's in the mail as we speak. The KAQ UQ would have cost me about $100 in materials and who knows how many hours of labor (I'm a virgin sewer). The commercial UQ's were out of the question due to the price tag. I will probably try my hand at a DIY UQ in the future but I wanted to be set for this winter. Also an UQ that will get me down to the same temp as my SS would be more money in materials.

    The SS with extra clothes, pad and space blanket plus 0* bag, I've read, will get me down to the teens or below. I've got a trip in the Presidentials in Oct. and will be trying the system out as much as possible in my yard until then. I'll let you know how it goes. For under $200 I get a complete system, wind protection, moisture protection from below, and a temp. rating that is in the ballpark. Not a lot of added weight or bulk.

    This is [I]onlyI] my conclusion from what I've read and advice I've gotten from members of this forum. Many before me with a lot more hanging experience have come to their own conclusions (some the same, some different) for various reasons. Good luck and hold on....it's a fun ride.

  6. #16
    Senior Member animalcontrol's Avatar
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    I have an UQ made from a single layer of 5.0oz Climashield.
    I have used it alone at 22*F...I'm a warm sleeper and YRMV
    IMO, 2 layers on a full sized UQ will nearly impossible to pack (if you are backpacking) The 5.0oz weight starts to get bulky compared to down
    "Every day is a new day to a better future"
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teletrekker View Post
    The SS with extra clothes, pad and space blanket plus 0* bag, I've read, will get me down to the teens or below.
    I am glad to see the space blanket listed in there. So many people leave it off. Did you check to see if the additional pads were going to be included in the shipment> There is a torso pad and a kidney pad which _have_ been available but may be no longer. If they have not shipped the item yet it might be worth inquiring as to whether they are still available. If need be you can point to the Backpackinggear.com review. It seems they were not a popular item and so they are no longer listed on the website. But according to that review they extend the functionality of the system quite a bit. I have not had the opportunity to try it out with the addiitional pads as I got them after the serious winter temps were over.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
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  8. #18
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teletrekker View Post
    This is an ongoing theme/question in this forum; one that I have been struggleing with since I received my explorer about a month ago. I'm in the same boat you are in. I spend time on the trail and in the backcountry year round and was concerned about staying warm in my HH. I've read everything I could get my eyes on in this forum and others, thought about a DIY UQ, the SS, and commercial UQ's.

    Price is a limiting factor for me and the conclusion I came to was to go with the SS. It's in the mail as we speak. The KAQ UQ would have cost me about $100 in materials and who knows how many hours of labor (I'm a virgin sewer). The commercial UQ's were out of the question due to the price tag. I will probably try my hand at a DIY UQ in the future but I wanted to be set for this winter. Also an UQ that will get me down to the same temp as my SS would be more money in materials.

    The SS with extra clothes, pad and space blanket plus 0* bag, I've read, will get me down to the teens or below. I've got a trip in the Presidentials in Oct. and will be trying the system out as much as possible in my yard until then. I'll let you know how it goes. For under $200 I get a complete system, wind protection, moisture protection from below, and a temp. rating that is in the ballpark. Not a lot of added weight or bulk.

    This is [I]onlyI] my conclusion from what I've read and advice I've gotten from members of this forum. Many before me with a lot more hanging experience have come to their own conclusions (some the same, some different) for various reasons. Good luck and hold on....it's a fun ride.
    TTreker,
    That should be a workable solution, especially for the price. Just read up here- do a search- on how to set it up. I think RamblinRev has a video, plus there are videos at the HH site. Be prepared to hang in there with it and figure out it's tricks. It CAN and HAS been done at cold temps, so you should be OK also even if you have to work at it. A few( like RRev) get it right off, others ( like me ) had to play with it quite a while to figure it out. Though in my defense, there were almost no other users at HF when I started. Actually, I didn't even know about HF anyway on my first use attempt, plus i had altitude sickness and brain fog! .

    I was quite baffled at how the thing worked, how to attache it correctly, as some others have been also. But after you get it set up right a time or two, you will see it is actually dirt simple and you could almost set it up blind folded. ( anyway, once you have it on right, don't take it off again- why go through all of that?) It is simply a sil-nylon hammock for your hammock. There are some holes on each end of the Undercover that your hammock ropes go through. There is a darker colored hem on the UC that goes UP towards the netting if you have it oriented correctly, and then there is a bottom opening in the UC that exactly matches the bottom opening of the hammock. You can take the hammock in and out of the UC while leaving both still attached to each other. IOW, the main hammock just sits down into the UC ( sil-nylon sort of hammock).

    In between these two layers ( in between the sil-nylon hammock(UC) for the main hammock) goes your HH OCF pad and or various layers of insulation. You can lay some of the lighter, less compressible stuff ( like wool socks, fleece balaclava, etc- or HH kidney/torso pads ) on top of the pad, while other down or Polargard stuff( or a layer or 4 of Climashield!) can go down into the UC, which you may have to loosen or tighten to adjust for the new weight.

    But first, you will want to figure out how cold you can go with just the basic system UC+ pad and space blanket. Ask RambinRev, who went a lot colder than me (about 30*f or so for me, real comfy hi 30s and above)

    Good luck, have fun, and don't forget your space blanket!

  9. #19
    Senior Member teletrekker's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips fellas. Like with the rest of my gear, this system is going to take some setup, break in, and how-to time.

    Rev- it' already shipped. Do you have pics of the kidney/torso pads? I've got lots of extra ccf to cut up!

  10. #20
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teletrekker View Post
    Rev- it' already shipped. Do you have pics of the kidney/torso pads? I've got lots of extra ccf to cut up!
    That's the funky thing about the Super Shelter and one of the reasons I think people are so dubious about it. The foam is not closed cell foam. It is open cell foam. I know that sounds weird. But it works really well in my experience. You can purchase additional foam inserts from HH for somewhere around $30 and if you wait until the clearance sale in October they usually have some scratch and dent foams they let go even cheaper. They are the same open cell foam, just sized differently.

    There is enough information on the site to avoid most of the radical pitfalls with the Super Shelter, plus as BB58 says, more people are using them now so there is a lot of personal input you and get.

    The single most important thing I can tell you about setting it up is UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES play around with it off the hammock. It is really easy to turn it inside out and if that happens all your worst nightmares about it will come true. Other than that it is relatively idiot proof IMO. (I can tend to be a card carrying idiot so I can say that.)
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
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