8yr old into the 20's with Apex 6.0

[Ratdog]

Testing continued on our under quilt designs using Apex 6.0

Summary:
8 year old was plenty warm at 20-23 degrees overnight.
Underquilt was Apex 6.0 wrapped in Argon, full channel suspension, 'trussed' to ridge line. Top quilt was UGQ 20 degree flight jacket with a sleeping bag layered on top for good measure.

Backstory:
Previously we had the Apex 6.0 quilts down to 35 degrees and the testers were my sherpa sister, niece and 8 year old nephews. All part of the, "see sis, it's ok to have the kids out in the cold" program.

Moose and I have been working a few mods to standard synthetic under quilt setups trying to make it a bit easier to secure the quilts against any draft issues for the children. Don't want to have them fiddling in the middle of the night because they'd like just sleep through and be cold. For sure their mothers, my sisters, do NOT want them out there being cold overnight.

At Fall MAHHA we had a couple quilts but were short several and I had to borrow from HF members. Then we just 'Bogarted' Jolly Green's Wilerness Logics quilt for a couple months because we kept camping and folks, ourselves and new comers, all needed additional insulation. So 3 months later we had sewn up enough quilts to return JG's and get some additional testing underway. [NOTE: I think it was after the 6th person was using Jolly's under quilt that I realized, Pete you better sew up some more under quilts. Fortunately I Tom Sawyer'd Moose into doing most of, ok, all of the sewing, but dang it if all the under quilts aren't spoken for again and now I'm back to having to sew up some more. I was informed last night that the sewing room, aka my sister's porch, is back open for business now that the holidays are done]

Here are 2 of the quilts, both in Apex 6.0;

The camo quilt was version 2 of the quilts shown in this thread:
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ght=underquilt

The orange quilt ended up being significantly lighter because we used some of Dutchs' Orange Argon and stayed with the lighter shock cord. We also sewed a serious of button holes at all four corners so we had multiple attachment points available by running the shock cord in and out of the button holes.

Our version 1 full length Apex 6.0 had a few minor issues, mostly user error. In fact, probably all user issues, sliding down, feet outside the quilt, gaps here or there. The version 3 quilt was rock solid and warm as could be.

The boy was so pumped about the experience, he wanted to sleep outside again last night. Parents nixed the idea but the good news is, the coming week should see us with temps into the low teens. Out in the woods, it's possible we could see single digits. If it weren't for school, the boy would be out there testing again. I am lobbying Moose and my sister to let him sleep out again if temps do get that low. We'll see how far they'll go in the name of hammock research. I tried the, 'let him write a paper for school' angle but apparently 8 year olds aren't big on research papers.

On to some pics.

[Ratdog]

Headlamp and iPod ready to go. Bundled up to head out to the lab. Regular single layer of pajamas, no layering or special base layer.

Pillow is our version 1 hammock pillow, synthetic stuffing, Argo fabric. This is good for a winter pillow, definitely keeps the head warm. For warmer temps we need a non calendared, more breathable fabric. We are also using a triangle shape to keep the orientation and a flap to self stuff. More on that later.

[Ratdog]

His dad, Moose was out there with him. 2 hammocks under a giant Kelty tarp.
Notice the frost/condensation, at that was when they were getting into "bed" around 11pm.



Mama bear checking on her cub.

[Ratdog]

The camo under quilt, 70-70" long, Apex 6.0, our version 2 under quilt full channel with triangle thingies. Made several changes after testing.



Version 3 full channel Apex 6.0 with multiple attachment points for pack hooks.



Lots of tabs to truss it up to the ridge line if needed.



Button holes to run shock cord through for pack hook attachment. Here it is only running between two holes to make it easier to slide on the primary channel. It can be run in and out a couple times until you find where exactly you need it depending on pack hook placement and hammock.

[Ratdog]

One of the things we've done is use Dutch's under quilt clips and clipped a pack hook directly to them and then clip that onto the hammock. Let's you create a moveable anchor point until you find where you want to sew some grosgrain and attach the pack hook. It's ok for testing but not a permanent solution, although it does work well with hammocks that have zippers because it really does lock into place. (say like at the head end, outside shoulder side of an XLC)


The under quilts all have a "gasket" around the perimeter created by doubling up the Apex 6.0 before sewing the perimeter of the fabric. That seems to be working well but it does add to the weight and amount of Apex used on the quilt.

So the good news is, Apex 6.0 is plenty good enough for temps down into the low 20's, even for children. Assuming you have a well designed, properly installed under quilt.

Of interest to some is the full channel, multiple featured synthetic under quilt. We have at least 2-3 more prototype versions to get through and by the time we are done, we hope to have a more simplified, yet robust design. As for commercial viability, by the time you factor the labor in for one of these quilts, you probably pushing the price of a lower end down quilt, so you'd have to either really want the features or really want synthetic.

We are considering offering these quilts, after working out some more design issues, on a limited basis because the additional features have them fitting a little more securely than just an end suspension or even primary/secondary suspension available now. That provides a little more peace of mind to parents of the younger hangers. It's also a very doable DIY project and when we get closer to a final design, we'll share more of the details for those that want to go that route.

[Ratdog]

Does anyone know offhand, the CLI for Apex 6.0?

It is supposed to loft anywhere between 1"-2". In my experience, closer to 1" than 2".

I've used my AHE KAQ Apex 5.0 down into the upper 20's with good comfort, mid to low 20's and I start to feel the chill. Usable, just not as toasty warm as I would like.

Tomorrow is forecast to be in the single digits, so should be a nice gear testing opportunity.

[atrane21]

Just to pitch in on apex temps. I've had a single layer of apex 6.0 down into the single digits and high winds and was nice a warm. This past friday i had 8.2oz (6.0 & 2.2 layers) down to -5 and only had a small chill around 5 in the morning. As a reference for the -5 temps i was only wearing a pair of fleece long johns, long sleeve t shirt, and a apex booties.

Edit: Forgot to mention the 20+ mph winds (wind chills in the -20's) for this past friday. If i had my undercover i don't think i would've had any chill at all.

[booone0]

Thank you both for the temp data. I have been on the fence on 5.0, 6.0, or 7.2 (5.0+2.2) for the apex. I think 5.0 will work well for a three season for my uses, and hopefully will get me to 30 and possibly below with some additions.

[shef]

I recently put together a 5.0+2.2 apex top quilt, and was very pleased with it's performance. I would be comfortable taking this piece of gear down into the teens, with little else. My current UQs are insultex, and I fully intend to upgrade to a single one made from 5.0+2.2 apex for winter hanging in the southeast.