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  1. #1
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    My poor experience with a hammock gear burrow 20*

    I know. Am I really about to bad talk Hammock Gear? Well, just hear me out. I'll explain my experiences with my quilt and maybe we can figure out why it worked but wasn't as "amazing" as I was expecting it to be.

    First and foremost, I own a HG Burrow 20*, +1 oz overstuff, wide, snap closed footbox.

    I made the mistake of taking this on my recent Vermont Long Trail End to End without testing it first assuming it would be good to go. I don't normally do this with gear, but after reading all the rave reviews and expecting much warmer temps I felt confident the quilt would perform well.

    So.. I hit the trail, starting at the Canadian border on August 13th. I gave myself about a month to do the trail and figured I wouldn't be out much later than the 2nd week in September at the most. Therefore, I could expect typical nights to be on average 45-70 degrees. I know that's a wide range of temperature for just a month, but New England is weird. However, these temps were well above the quilts rating therefore I was confident it would perform. The lowest temp I encountered at night was about 43*. However nights were consistently hovering around the 50* mark give or take a few degrees.

    All though we brought our hammocks, we decided to stay in the shelters every night of the trip. The LT is setup for a shelter to shelter hike and they are not crowded/disgusting like most of the AT. Anyways, we stayed in shelters every night. I slept on my inflatable pad. A Big Agnes Air Core pad. Now, this pad has a relatively low R-Value.. something like 1.5 or so. I feel this did have some effect on my overall warmth but I only experienced a few nights where my body was a little cold against the pad. Those were the nights I was cold overall, because the pad wasn't insulating enough.

    On 25 nights of the trail, I was only "comfortable enough to sleep" most of the trip. I had to sleep in my wool trekking socks, long johns, long top underwear, and micro fleece most of the time. I also wore my merino beanie most nights. I was often a tad too cold to get completely comfortable and only slept toasty warm 2-3 nights. When I was toasty, I was still wearing socks and long underwear, just no fleece.

    The biggest problem I had with the quilt was getting the footbox warm. I don't sleep with cold feet. Well at least not in my zip up bags. The footbox would get warm enough to be comfortable but if I move my feet a little there would be cold spots all over. And then it would be like starting from scratch to warm up the footbox. I was wishing I went with a zipped up footbox the whole trip, figuring it would help seal up some of the heat I generated. I also cinched up the footbox and shoved one my surplus glove liners in the hole to seal it. Still, I only had toasty feet a few night of the trips. And that's when the night low was about 65 degrees. Most of the time I had to overcome my slightly chilly feet and just ignore it and fall asleep.

    Secondly, I did need to get accustomed to sleeping with a quilt and getting the wide width was obviously the right decision. However I noticed that the down always liked to shift to the outside edges of the quilt and I had to readjust it ever night. I would spend a few minutes before bed readjusting down and lofting the bag only to wake up in the middle of the night with cold spots due to the down shifting to the edges again. I do toss and turn a little bit, but I also ordered the quilt with over stuff to counteract that. Drafts were something I needed to learn to deal with and tucking the quilt underneath me whenever I readjusted did mitigate this problem. That's just a truth one needs to accept when utilizing a quilt. However, if a draft got in my quilt.. my quilt would lose warmth very quickly and it would take a few minutes for my body to heat the quilt up again.

    I also experienced durability issues with my quilt. And this one really did get on my nerves. I am gentle with my gear. I use ultralight gear, and know their limitations when it comes to "ruggedness". However, the materials used in HG quilts are very similar to other high quality down bags. I made it a point to be very gentle snapping and unsnapping the footbox on my quilt because the fabric did feel fragile. After only snapping and unsnapping the entire footbox two or three times, I teared the fabric right next to one of the snaps. As I said, I grabbed both sides of the button and never used the fabric to pull the snap apart. The tear was small, and I had to put a piece of duct tape over it so no down would leak out. I left the footbox snapped for the remainder of the trip cause I was worried unsnapping would cause more tears. I was gentle, and it still teared.

    After about 17 nights in my quilt, I was fluffing it up and adjusting the down before I was about to head to bed. I noticed one of the stitchings on a baffle had come undone and it had come out about 4inches from the edge of the quilt. I left it be and that's how it remains today.

    I hiked the trail with my brother and a sobo that started with us the same day. They had a 20* synthetic mummy and an old 20* down bag, respectively. They were never cold, slept in their underwear and used their bags like quilts most of the nights. We discussed how the loft on my quilt was not as good as either of their bags.

    I stored my quilt in a 13L Sea to Summit dry bag so it was never overcompressed. My quilt never got wet during the whole trip.

    In conclusion, my 20* + 1 oz overstuff, felt more like a 50* to me. Most nights I felt like I was pushing the limits of the bag and always needed to supplement warmth with clothing. I survived, was never close to hypothermia, but was not at all impressed with its warmth despite all the reviews I read that it was a furnace. I know, I'm one of few with a bad experience with a HG quilt. I also feel that if I had a warmer sleeping pad I would have been more comfortable most of the trip, however not by much.

    In the end, I was cold and uncomfortable. I'm writing this review almost 3 months after my trip so it probably reads a little loosely. However, I rated it as one of the worst pieces of gear I brought with me on my thru hike. If I were to do it all again, I would have brought my 35* synthetic bag I had at home.

    Any questions please feel free to ask, I would like to discuss my experience more with you guys.

  2. #2
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
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    That's too bad, especially the tearing even though you were careful with it. You said it never got wet, but were there damp days where the down may have sucked up humidity without it being obvious? That's really all I can think of since your posts covers your experience well.

    I never tried it, but I don't think I could get used to a top quilt on the ground. A hammock is much easier since it gets wrapped up a bit by the underquilt.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by markr6 View Post
    That's too bad, especially the tearing even though you were careful with it. You said it never got wet, but were there damp days where the down may have sucked up humidity without it being obvious? That's really all I can think of since your posts covers your experience well.

    I never tried it, but I don't think I could get used to a top quilt on the ground. A hammock is much easier since it gets wrapped up a bit by the underquilt.
    There were a fair amount of damp days. We started the trip off my 3 days of straight rain. However my bag felt fresh and only a little damp on occasion. Nothing I haven't experienced with any of my other down products. Furthermore, my hiking partner using a down bag didn't have any warmth problems.

    Even when it was dry and mostly sunny for two weeks straight, I experienced the warmth issues I was having.

  4. #4
    Herder of Cats OutandBack's Avatar
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    Did you weigh this bag and compare it against the website weights? Maybe you got a 50 shipped by mistake.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ckmaui's Avatar
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    bummer for sure

    was this a new quilt from them ?
    and what did HG say about the baffle stitch coming out ?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Harstad's Avatar
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    Big Agnes Air Core pad... Hmmm

    Looks uninsulated - That might be the main problem and source of heat loss. I would suggest to pair up old Agnes with a closed cell foam pad and try a few nights more.
    If I die, my biggest fear is that my wife will sell my gear for what I told her I paid for it.

    I am learning from my mistakes, so I can make better and bigger mistakes.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    I just reweighed it. 23.66oz in a 20L Sea to Summit Dry bag. So subtracting about 1.7oz for the 20L bag = 21.96oz .. The weight on the website is 19.1oz. I got +1oz overstuff and the Argon 90 exterior and Argon 67 interior. So the weight is correct. It also has 20* tags sewn on it.

    I contemplated that myslef.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckmaui View Post
    bummer for sure

    was this a new quilt from them ?
    and what did HG say about the baffle stitch coming out ?
    Brand new quilt ordered in 2014, I haven't gotten in touch with them yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harstad View Post
    Big Agnes Air Core pad... Hmmm

    Looks uninsulated - That might be the main problem and source of heat loss. I would suggest to pair up old Agnes with a closed cell foam pad and try a few nights more.
    As I said, I suspected the air pad was insufficient for the trip, as it had a low R value. Big Agnes website says R = 1.5, temp rating 35*. It isn't a warm pad. But there were only a few nights I noticed I was a little cold on the pad. I don't think I warmer pad would of made a substantial difference.

    I do now own a neoair x-lite.. and trust me, I haven't given up on the quilt yet. I plan to spend a night or two in my garage with this setup when the night lows get to about 20-30 degrees. Just to see. If it's cold. I'll go back inside.

  9. #9
    Senior Member yooz85's Avatar
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    I took my 20° burrow with no over stuff and a sewn foot box down to 3° last night. I also wore some extra layears but was toasty warm all night. That's a shame you weren't happy with your purchase, contact HG I'm sure they will fix the snap and baffle issue.
    check out my youtube channel! Trip Reports and hammock talk. - Creekcrossings Youtube channel

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  10. #10
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Quality/durability issues aside, you probably should have tested this quilt in the manner you intended to use it before setting out on such a trip. I used a 20* Burrow as my only TQ for two years (always in a hammock) in nighttime temps from 70* down to 13 degrees and it's always kept me warm. However, it sounds like you're a cold sleeper who has a TQ that's not properly rated for you and its intended use (ground pounding). I'd be interested to know how the bag performs for you in a hammock. Some ground dwellers just can't adapt to TQs and are better off using mummy bags.

    I've never used my 20* Burrow on the ground and I sincerely hope I never will. (I've also never slept in a shelter; the thought of rodents running over me in the night is not appealing). When I first ordered my 20* Burrow, I called Adam and asked why I would want a snap footbox (I hate snaps - they always fail. And zippers are evil too!) and he said, "To sleep on the ground." Since I had no intention of ever doing so, I went with the sewn footbox. I also didn't like the snaps because my feet also get cold, and having that hole down there just seemed inadvisable to me.

    Even with the sewn footbox, my feet were still cold. A pad in the footbox didn't help. The solution I found was to not wear any socks or footwear - they just seem to trap sweat and keep my feet chilly. My feet haven't been cold since.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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