Down underquilt with HHSS?

[captaincoupal]

Hi, I've been using the HHSS but wanted to try getting to lower temperatures. Has anyone had any experience mixing a down underquilt into the HHSS? I was considering using the undercover as an underquilt protector with a down underquilt to act as a windbreak or to extend the weather protection slightly farther. My concern is that the undercover might be too tight, and might overcompress the down insulation. Also a little concerned about moisture collecting in the down.

Thoughts?

Additionally, could I use both the underquilt with the supershelter's underpad? So I would put the undercover, then the down quilt, then the underpad, then the hammock.

[BillyBob58]

Hi, I've been using the HHSS but wanted to try getting to lower temperatures. Has anyone had any experience mixing a down underquilt into the HHSS? I was considering using the undercover as an underquilt protector with a down underquilt to act as a windbreak or to extend the weather protection slightly farther. My concern is that the undercover might be too tight, and might overcompress the down insulation. Also a little concerned about moisture collecting in the down.

Thoughts?

Additionally, could I use both the underquilt with the supershelter's underpad? So I would put the undercover, then the down quilt, then the underpad, then the hammock.

Sure you can do all of that. But, yes, the UC will compress it especially in some spots. (you can rig up some mods to defeat this compression) And you will likely get moisture in it just like happens with the HHSS by itself for most folks, unless you use a VB between the hammock and all (HHSS or quilt) insulation. Folks usually use the HH recommended space blanket for that purpose, that is as a full length VB and maybe also as a radiant heat reflector.

The most common way I have always boosted my HHSS is by adding any unworn clothing down under the pad. Fleece(zipped up for double layer) works best as it will not compress with these forces. Sometimes I have added a down vest, and the fleece already there keeps it from compressing too much. This really, really helps.

The best thing I have done is use the HH kidney/torso pads, which may or may not still be available. They have never shown them at their web site, you have to ask, it's a secret! For about 3 oz, these add a big boost, by themselves or with clothing or other insulation. Using these plus VB clothing and nothing else, I have been warm at 6F. Without VBs (other than the space blanket) using these torso/kidney pads plus the above added clothing trick, I have been toasty at 14F no tarp with a single digit wind chill.

The other common trick is to set the HHSS up as per normal, then wrap an UQ around it. True this UQ will not be protected from the wind and rain, but it also won't be compressed and you won't have to worry about condensation. Even a 40F UQ should give you another 20-30F on whatever you get from the HHSS.

Good luck,have fun experimenting!

[sunkmail]

I tried using a modified SS undercover with just my UQ and didn't like the result....

(My mod was removing the bungee for bottom entry, so it was quite loose fitting and didn't bunch up my UQ.)

The UC is Sil, so it acted as a VB on the outside of my UQ. Thus, I has moist down in the morning.
I wasn't cold, but that was probably due to the UQ being massive overkill for the ambient temp.

So, unless you are using some sort of VB between you and the UQ, I wouldn't recommend it.

YMMV - The UQ outside the undercover would probably be your best bet.

I'm thinking of copying the undercover in a breathable nylon and trying that. It's way down on my to-do list though, so it may be a while before I can test.

[captaincoupal]

Guys, thanks very much for the responses. I'm going to consider keeping the 2 systems separate, as it seems that the UC is too much of a vapor barrier for the down UQ. Perhaps I will take a look at making a breathable water-resistant UQP instead.

[BillyBob58]

Guys, thanks very much for the responses. I'm going to consider keeping the 2 systems separate, as it seems that the UC is too much of a vapor barrier for the down UQ. Perhaps I will take a look at making a breathable water-resistant UQP instead.

You are welcome. I feel that the HHSS(along with Speer PeaPod) is one of the most under appreciated hammock insulation systems available. It doesn't get much respect, and some would say for good reason. But whether it's me or Kwpapke taking his augmented one side by side with Shug years ago to minus 27, or maybe 1/2 dozen or so other HHSS afficianados here, there are those of us who have had excellent success with it. I have every type system, but I still appreciate the pros(and am aware of the cons), there are a few of us that have had real good luck with it.

Of course, just like the other systems, it pays to really understand how the system works. To me, one of it's best assets is that non-breathable, water and wind proof under-cover(UC) that is included in the price and weight. Even with the small HH 11 oz tarp, wind or wind driven snow/rain will never be a problem. The UC's custom built in elastics serve to apply just the right amount of tension on the pad to keep it snugged up against your back without actually compressing the Open Cell Foam pad. And when used with other insulation like additional OCF pads(kidney/torso pads) or poorly compressing fleece or fleece combine with down(the fleece acting as a limiter for the compression) it can truly perform impressively. Has for me many times. In fact I went back to it to last Jan to set my PB of 6F using only the main pad + kidney/torso pads, and VB clothing. (I was never sure how much the VB clothing added, since the space blanket already acts as a VB). Thing is, I was toasty and definitely could have gone lower if nature had co-operated. Maybe even below zero? I think so. But, to overcome condensation with that external VB, i.e. the UC, it is important to use another VB(space blanket and/or VB clothing or liners) on the warm side.

When I mentioned modding the UC to avoid down compression, I am thinking in terms of sewing a loop(s) onto the lowest point(or several points) and using shock cord to a ground stake or root or run under a rock, or a stuff sack filled with sand or rocks and hung from the loop(s), just enough weight(won't take much) or tension to overcome the HH elastics and not compress the down much or at all. Just add the amount of counter tension needed so that the down or Climashield presses snugly against your back, but not snug enough to compress. Or, as kwpapke did at minus 27, he placed a Exped Multimat pad on the bottom. I've always suspected this, along with the 30F down bag he added under the HH pad and on top of the Exped was heavy enough to sag the UC enough so as not to over compress the bag. Result: very warm at way below zero temps. With or without such tricks, you just would not believe how much boost a zipped up down jacket stuffed below the pad can add.

So augmented or not, don't be too quick to give up on that HHSS and it's water proof, windproof UC! Unless, of course, you just want to! I'm not one to say don't try other stuff, as I certainly do! For one reason among many, I like other hammocks that the HHSS just won't work on.
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...pershelter-27F

https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ears-in-a-WBBB

[captaincoupal]

BillyBob - do you have a picture of the kidney/torso pads that you could post?

[BillyBob58]

BillyBob - do you have a picture of the kidney/torso pads that you could post?

Sure. I have no idea if they are still available. First I ever heard of them was 6 or 7 years ago, reading the winter tests of the HHSS at BGT. After several people had already tested, HH asked that testing be stopped until these kidney/torso pads were given to them for deep winter testing. They had been supposedly left out by accident. So they got them, retested with much better results. Then after some years I had not been able to find those reviews anymore. So I don't know if they are available, but they should be. I don't know why HH has NEVER publicized them at their web site. I had to call and ask to get mine. It's like you have to know the secret handshake:

[NewtonGT]

I just purchased a KAQ New river underquilt and it's not down but I was also thinking about putting my hennesy pad in between the hammock and quilt so I'm glad I saw this. Nice to see billybob58 still teaching people how to use the super shelter!

[peterhase]

Thanks for the info Billybob58! I just picked up a Super Shelter myself and am hoping to test it out soon. Any idea what temps (roughly) I can drop to with the Under Cover, Open Cell Foam pad and a space blanket?

[captaincoupal]

I suspect that it's a lot about if you're a cold or warm sleeper, but most people seem to find that you can get this combination down to 30-40F, and more if you supplement with other things.