Consensus on reliable ultralight suspension system

[fastfoxengineering]

Alright, then let's compare a Dutch hammock with NylonD 1.6 (I have the Dutch Argon of the same 1.6 weight fabric to compare) + bugnet, to a Dream Hammock single layer 1.6 hammock, and I'll show you how I came to my conclusion to get a Dream Hammock (I made this decision for the weight, yes, but moreso because of what a complete and utter PITA the summer sock/bug net is to use - a Fronkey style bugnet seems to be a lot easier to get in and out of for only a slight weight penalty).

And for hammock length, how tall are you? Most people of average height and above overwhelmingly prefer an 11' hammock for comfort (length is more important than width, and the extra length makes it feel like it is wider than it really is = awesome comfort). Here’s some weights from my spreadsheets which’ll hopefully help you make a decision (and if you do decide on a 10’ after all, the weights should still be comparable to each other).


Dutch setup:

Dutch Argon 1.6 11' hammock (gray) 10.65 ounces
--110" Amsteel 7/64" Adjustable Ridgeline +/- ~12" 0.75
--8" Continuous Loops, x2 0.245
--Dutch Titanium Speed Hook with 7' Amsteel lead 1.03
--4' Tree Huggers 2.44
Summer sock Bug net 7 (mine came in at ~6 ounces, but it’s extremely tight on me so might be off size since multiple people have told me theirs is an once heavier than mine, so I’ll go with 7 ounces here)
__________________________
22.115 ounces

The lightest tarp (with doors, which is important for inclement weather IMO) is Hammock Gears standard cuben tarp with doors which is 10.52 ounces with zing-it guy lines, and 2x Dutch Wasps for the ridgeline (take off .88 ounces if you don’t want a tarp sleeve). That's 31.635 ounces, or ~2 pounds for a complete setup (minus insulation of course).


To compare that to a complete built-in bugnet setup, I have my Dream Hammock Darien, single layer 1.6 to compare that to. It came in at 21 ounces complete with their suspension (including stuff sack, and ridgeline organizer even). That’s a touch lighter than the Dutch setup, and it was only $150 for the entire hammock setup.

Now I sent the Dream Hammock back to get quilt hooks installed, and I plan on replacing their suspension: single loop tree strap + whoopie slings + toggles, but I have a feeling the finished product with the suspension replaced with a Dutch speed hook setup just might shave off just a little bit more weight (we'll see once I add up everything - I know the quilt hooks weigh nearly nothing, but don't want to say this is 110% accurate weight-wise for the gram weenie).



So, after this super-long post, the above is how I went through my decision making process to stick with a pre-made hammock with built-in bugnet, over a Dutch setup. I just couldn't deal with the hassle of the Dutch summer sock bug net the couple times I tried it...and when I did the math the Dream Hammocks Darien was nearly identical in weight so that was a no brainer. Hope this helps.






And crap, didn't see this post as I was typing the above. Just a couple points: the Dream Hammock Darien is constructed so you can unzip the bug net on the one side and throw it over the back so one entire side of the hammock is open to the air. They make another model in which I believe the netting comes off on both sides (and/or can be taken completely off of the hammock). Slight weight penalty there since the zipper is on both sides instead of just 1 side.

The Hammeck Netty is constructed so you can zip off the netting on both sides, and shove it into a little net stuff sack in a recess at one end so it's completely out of the way (and out of sight even).

I came from my first "real" hammock being a Warbonnet XLC, with a completely removable net, so I know how nice it can be to go "netless" (but only for lounging around camp - by me there's mosquitos EVERYWHERE so I've never been able to sleep in a hammock without a net). I'm sure you're done your research, but there are MANY parts of the AT where people have to wear bug nets over their heads as they hike because the bugs are so bad...mosquitos, black flies, no-see-ums...I've experienced them all depending where in the country I am and maybe I'm a wimp, but I consider a bugnet a must.

As a New Englander, I know how bad skeeters and black flies can get. Thank you for taking the time to explain how you made your decision. It's certainly something I'm going to take into consideration. I still have A LOT of research to do before I decide on my next hammock. In the meantime, I'm going to keep using my Hennessy.

Thanks again, at least my next suspension system is settled lol. I'll probably purchase that soon and use it with my Hennessy to practice with it.

[Dochartaigh]

There's one more thing I forget to explain. If I'm understanding the construction of pretty much all the netted hammocks correctly, how they're cut and constructed with the bugnet, is what gives them their "footbox" (and is what designates them to have a specific standard head-left(of the ridgeline)-feet-right or the non-standard head-right-feet-left lay). The footbox is an area that lets you stretch out more flat in a hammock which many say makes it a lot more comfortable. Just something else to consider for a hammock you're going to spend 100+ nights in. There's things like the knotty mod which can make a similar footbox in a regular non-netted hammock as well.

[SilvrSurfr]

Furthermore, I have grown to dislike have my bug net permanently attached to my hammock. I don't need it just as much as I need it. My favorite time in a hammock is with no bugs and no bug net to deal with. I'm also looking more and more into removable structural ridge lines. So I have the option of playing with it off and on.

I'm with you on the independent bugnet. I hate zippers and love the quick exit provided by the Fronkey-style bugnet. And you're right, there will be a boatload of nights you won't even need to set up the bugnet. I'm a mosquito magnet, but mosquitoes get lethargic at 60 degrees and are immobile at 50 degrees.

I also like the fact that simple-gathered end hammocks are so cheap. I can try different fabrics for cheap. If may hammock gets damaged, I'm looking at a $30 replacement cost. If a high-end, integrated bugnet hammock gets damaged, you're looking at $175+ to replace it.

I have never found the need to remove the ridgeline. Actually, I depend on it to give me predictable end coverage from the tarp, not to mention that I hang my pack and everything else from the ridgeline (critters gnawing on my stuff is not appealing).

[SilvrSurfr]

With either of those hammocks, I assume your over 2lbs once you add suspension and a tarp. I would like to be around the 1.5# marker for my whole setup. Including rain and bug protection.

If you're aiming for 1.5 lbs., you're gonna have to skip ultralight and go with stupid light. Here's my setup and approx. weights:

HG Winter Palace 8.5 oz.
Dutch Continuous Ridgeline & Zing-It 1.75 guylines - 2 oz.
BIAS NanoBuginator Bugnet 7 oz.
Dutch 11 ft. PolyD 1.4 hammock, suspension, adjustable structural ridgeline, and Dutch ridgeline biner 14 oz.
Total 31.5 oz.

Add in a few ounces for stakes. Where would I look to trim weight? Possibly the tarp, but I tried the HG CF Standard (6.5 oz.) and it just wasn't enough coverage for me. I don't believe in postage stamp tarps; I don't like to get wet and I don't like wind. Some folks go with a minimal tarp and carry an UQP, but that makes no sense to me. Let's say I dumped the 8.5 oz. Winter Palace and got the HG Standard tarp at 6.5 oz. Add a UQP at 6.5 oz. Now I'm at 13 ounces!!! I'm better off with the Winter Palace. Some folks use a poncho at one end of the hammock to block wind and rain, but I'm not interested in that either because, if I'm wearing the poncho all day hiking and it's soaking wet, the last thing I want to do is snug it up to my UQ and get it wet too. The whole poncho thing depends on the wind and rain actually blowing from the same direction all night, which is not my experience at all on the East Coast. The disciples of site selection will tell you that you can use landscape features (rocks, bushes, hills) for wind protection, but the last thing I want to do at the end of a long hiking day is wander around looking for landscape features that provide weather protection.

The weight of the tarp ridgeline, hammock ridgeline and ridgeline biner are negligible - no real savings to be found there. You could go with a HUG bugnet to save a whole two ounces, but I don't care for the HUG because it relies on your TQ and other hammock components for bug protection. However, bug season is hot, and I might tend to kick off my TQ and get ravaged by mosquitoes - so the HUG is a no-go for me. I'm definitely not going shorter or narrower on the hammock.

You could go with Dynaglide, but I doubt you'd save more than an ounce. I think the 1.5 lb. mark you've set is an arbitrary number pulled out of one's nether regions, and to reach it you'll have to do something stupid light to meet that number.

[Moel Siabod]

I've tried lots of suspension systems including Dutch speed hooks but I've yet to find anything better than this. Take a look at the video.

It is extremely cheap, you can easily make a DIY version, it is the lightest suspension system I've ever seen, no hardware to break or lose, you can easily repair or replace it while on your hike, it is easier to adjust than even the speed hooks. I don't understand why is isn't popular amongst forum members.

[fastfoxengineering]

I'm with you on the independent bugnet. I hate zippers and love the quick exit provided by the Fronkey-style bugnet. And you're right, there will be a boatload of nights you won't even need to set up the bugnet. I'm a mosquito magnet, but mosquitoes get lethargic at 60 degrees and are immobile at 50 degrees.

I also like the fact that simple-gathered end hammocks are so cheap. I can try different fabrics for cheap. If may hammock gets damaged, I'm looking at a $30 replacement cost. If a high-end, integrated bugnet hammock gets damaged, you're looking at $175+ to replace it.

I have never found the need to remove the ridgeline. Actually, I depend on it to give me predictable end coverage from the tarp, not to mention that I hang my pack and everything else from the ridgeline (critters gnawing on my stuff is not appealing).

If you're aiming for 1.5 lbs., you're gonna have to skip ultralight and go with stupid light. Here's my setup and approx. weights:

HG Winter Palace 8.5 oz.
Dutch Continuous Ridgeline & Zing-It 1.75 guylines - 2 oz.
BIAS NanoBuginator Bugnet 7 oz.
Dutch 11 ft. PolyD 1.4 hammock, suspension, adjustable structural ridgeline, and Dutch ridgeline biner 14 oz.
Total 31.5 oz.

Add in a few ounces for stakes. Where would I look to trim weight? Possibly the tarp, but I tried the HG CF Standard (6.5 oz.) and it just wasn't enough coverage for me. I don't believe in postage stamp tarps; I don't like to get wet and I don't like wind. Some folks go with a minimal tarp and carry an UQP, but that makes no sense to me. Let's say I dumped the 8.5 oz. Winter Palace and got the HG Standard tarp at 6.5 oz. Add a UQP at 6.5 oz. Now I'm at 13 ounces!!! I'm better off with the Winter Palace. Some folks use a poncho at one end of the hammock to block wind and rain, but I'm not interested in that either because, if I'm wearing the poncho all day hiking and it's soaking wet, the last thing I want to do is snug it up to my UQ and get it wet too. The whole poncho thing depends on the wind and rain actually blowing from the same direction all night, which is not my experience at all on the East Coast. The disciples of site selection will tell you that you can use landscape features (rocks, bushes, hills) for wind protection, but the last thing I want to do at the end of a long hiking day is wander around looking for landscape features that provide weather protection.

The weight of the tarp ridgeline, hammock ridgeline and ridgeline biner are negligible - no real savings to be found there. You could go with a HUG bugnet to save a whole two ounces, but I don't care for the HUG because it relies on your TQ and other hammock components for bug protection. However, bug season is hot, and I might tend to kick off my TQ and get ravaged by mosquitoes - so the HUG is a no-go for me. I'm definitely not going shorter or narrower on the hammock.

You could go with Dynaglide, but I doubt you'd save more than an ounce. I think the 1.5 lb. mark you've set is an arbitrary number pulled out of one's nether regions, and to reach it you'll have to do something stupid light to meet that number.

I see what your saying. I haven't looked into bug nets out there and I know alot of people are trying to perfect them. I like your setup and that's prob something I'm gonna end up similar with. Especially in the tarp and tarp rigging department. That's exactly where I'm heading. As for the hammock, I may be a little lighter. 10ft hammock, same suspension, fixed ridgeline, and biner.

I'm coming to the realization that allthough 1.1oz nylon type hammocks looked great on paper. It's not for me. You have a pretty substantial shelter that's meant for the long haul. That's what I need.

Any reason you go with the PolyD 1.4 over the NylonD? I need to contact dutch so he can explain the differences between Argon, Nylon, and Poly material hammocks. Unless you have some good links up your sleeve silvrsurfr...thanks for the help, you've been nothing but informative in my decision making process.

[Fastest1]

I've tried lots of suspension systems including Dutch speed hooks but I've yet to find anything better than this. Take a look at the video.

It is extremely cheap, you can easily make a DIY version, it is the lightest suspension system I've ever seen, no hardware to break or lose, you can easily repair or replace it while on your hike, it is easier to adjust than even the speed hooks. I don't understand why is isn't popular amongst forum members.

Brilliant. Thanks for sharing. Is this the tape used for pulling cables or power lines? Seems like I see it somewhere.

[SilvrSurfr]

Any reason you go with the PolyD 1.4 over the NylonD? I need to contact dutch so he can explain the differences between Argon, Nylon, and Poly material hammocks.

According to Dutch (he's said it in several threads), Argon will stretch the most, NylonD will be next and PolyD 1.4 will stretch the least. Ever since I tried a polyester taffeta tablecloth hammock, I've found I like the minimal stretch of a polyester hammock - it gives me a much firmer lay. However, a tablecloth hammock weighs 14.5 oz. so not exactly a hiking hammock. I used a BIAS Hiker Lite polyester hammock (9.5 oz. and $32.95) for the last year or so, but the PolyD 1.4 is more comfortable (though I can't put my finger on why).

Some people think more stretch in a hammock is the key to comfort, but I'm hooked on polyester.

[SilvrSurfr]

I've tried lots of suspension systems including Dutch speed hooks but I've yet to find anything better than this. Take a look at the video.

It is extremely cheap, you can easily make a DIY version, it is the lightest suspension system I've ever seen, no hardware to break or lose, you can easily repair or replace it while on your hike, it is easier to adjust than even the speed hooks. I don't understand why is isn't popular amongst forum members.

One way to cut a miniscule amount of weight is by not following Best Practice and Leave No Trace principles, ignoring minimum 1" strap width recommendations to save weight, and giving all us hangers a bad name (all to save approx. 1 ounce). While I can see the attraction of no hardware, 1 inch mule tape would be better. Besides, Dutch's hardware weighs next to nothing.

If you wanna get all UL radical, use 1.75 mm or 2.2 mm Zing-It for your hammock suspension. We often hear of people proposing such things. We rarely hear about astounding success using such skimpy cordage. HYOH, et cetera and so on.

[Sethrotull]

I'm thinking about switching over to a light hammock and speed hooks. I like em.