WBRR foot end insulation question

**locknload** · 01-26-2015, 07:19

I'm leaning very heavily towayds a RR over BB. I'm a side sleeper and can have feelings of slight claustrophobia from shoulder squeeze in my current ENO DN. I have a 20 deg +1 Incubator and love it. I've seen where this quilt will work on the RR but I have a question about the vertical portion of the RR at the foot end. What is done for insulation there? My UQ wrapped up and around my ENO past my feet so I felt the "vertical" portion of the ENO was insulated. For some reason this thought just hit me the other day. Oh, for now I'm using my BA Lost Ranger 15 deg sleeping bag, more like 30 deg rating though.

Thanks.

**barchetta** · 01-26-2015, 07:23

Your sleeping bag should take care of your feet. You could get a small pad that might help a little bit, but really shouldn't be needed. My Warbonnet quilt doesn't wrap around like a gathered ends would and I'm always fine. Your incubator should fit well enough for your torso but I find they sag a little in the foot area.

**Cali** · 01-26-2015, 07:37

I have a double layer RR and I use an insulated pad in mine and it keeps me toasty warm. I use it partially inflated and it is so comfortable. I am also a side sleeper and I found my knee would sometimes lay on the hard edge of the RR, but I have a small pillow I just put under my knee and it works great. Good luck to you.

**locknload** · 01-26-2015, 08:05

Thanks for the replys. Your pad leads me to another question. I used a BA 2 1/2 insulated air pad in my ENO and slept okay. Since using my UQ, I left the pad out thinking it would cancel out the UQ's ability to reflect my heat back at me. Maybe I'm off here but it seems the pad would block your heat from the quilt as it's designed to block the cold from you. Thoughts on that? How thick is your pad? I've wondered if a thinner pad would be ok.

**gmcttr** · 01-26-2015, 08:17

UQ's and/or pads don't "reflect your heat back to you". They simply slow down your loss of heat. Stacking layers (like an UQ and pad) or anything that increases insulation, decreases heat loss.

**BillyBob58** · 01-26-2015, 09:20

Originally Posted by locknload

Thanks for the replys. Your pad leads me to another question. I used a BA 2 1/2 insulated air pad in my ENO and slept okay. Since using my UQ, I left the pad out thinking it would cancel out the UQ's ability to reflect my heat back at me. Maybe I'm off here but it seems the pad would block your heat from the quilt as it's designed to block the cold from you. Thoughts on that? How thick is your pad? I've wondered if a thinner pad would be ok.

Originally Posted by gmcttr

UQ's and/or pads don't "reflect your heat back to you". They simply slow down your loss of heat. Stacking layers (like an UQ and pad) or anything that increases insulation, decreases heat loss.

Thank you for repeating what is my opinion on the matter. I have been arguing against a very prevalent theory around here, which states the opposite, for years. Although I may be wrong, and often am, the other theory has just never made any since to me. It is essentially an argument against various forms of layering. It has just always seems to me that if something, like a fleece jacket, long johns, pad or radiant/vapor barrier is somehow keeping your body heat out of your quilt, wouldn't that actually be a good thing? Don't you want your body heat to stay as close to your skin as possible, and not heading through your layers towards the outdoors? If something keeps your body's heat from getting out into your quilts, then where is that heat going? What about if you stack quilts? Does the inner quilt hinder heat reaching the outer quilt and warming it up and doing it's job? Sorry, I know a lot of folks here think that is the case, but the idea of extra insulation keeping your heat from reaching the outer layers of insulation and making me cold just makes little since and goes against my personal experience. If I have been cold, adding layers or a pad has never failed to make me less cold.

Also, Locknload, I think you can add your pads as needed, and yes a thinner pad probably would also be just fine. Less insulation but maybe all you need, if any. There was a recent thread here by Chris that addressed all of your questions. First, chris had CBS using a 0 HG UQ on a bridge at some temp apparently above 8F, as that was the final low after he solved the problem. He simply put a small piece of CCF under his butt and was toasty the rest of the night.
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...-WBBB-XLC-Gaps

Then this led to some discussion of using this UQ and whether it's unique shape might be an issue on the much flatter bridge hammocks. I don't know if we came to a conclusion but the theory is out there. HTHs.

EDIT: re: that question that has come up about that specific UQ on a bridge hammock: we may not know the answer, but in general there is zero issue with UQs and the foot section or any other part of a bridge hammock. For sure I have found my bridge hammocks the easiest to insulate- pad or UQ- of all hammocks I use. The only exception to this is using a PeaPod on a narrow Claytor No Net ( non-bridge), which is at least a match for ease of insulation. This is not to say the other combos won't work fine, as they do for many. I'm only telling you what has been easiest and most consistent for me. And UQs on bridges have been super simple for me. The only potential problem on that is if the UQ is too long for the bridge, but even then I have been able to get it working pretty easy with minor mods.

**GoatHanger** · 01-26-2015, 10:19

I've been using my incubator on my RR with pretty good success. I did put a cord lock of the foot end of the main suspension to help bring it up closer to my backside. When using the incubator on a gathered end hammock, the points of attachment are further away from each other, so the suspension is tighter, naturally pulling it up against your body. The cord lock just allows you to shorten the usable part of the cord, making it tight like it is on a gathered end.

The first night I used it on the RR, I forgot to cinch the draft collar on the foot end, so my heels were cool.

Since the cord lock, I have no complaints using this quilt on my RR.

**Cali** · 01-26-2015, 12:12

I used a Synmat 7 partially inflated on my RR down in the 20's and was warm. I have a 0* UGQ UQ coming, so I will see how that works. I didn't like my other 0* UQ on the RR as I felt it didn't snug up right. My HG Incubator did well though, but it is only 20* and it got down in the teens last year and I am a cold sleeper. I did try an inflatable pad and the UQ, but it was not an insulated pad and I got cold.

**Passinthru** · 01-26-2015, 14:26

I have an UGQ Ambush - the custom fit UQ for the Ridgerunner. It is long enough to reach from head to toe on my underside and the HG Topquilt covers top, sides, and bottoms of my feet. So far I haven't needed anything more.

**Nighthauk** · 01-26-2015, 14:31

I have used the RR down to -9*f. With just quilts. There is no problem. If you think about it, it is really no different from sleeping in a tent or anywhere else. In all those places your foot end of your sleeping bag is exposed with just a wind block, ie (tent walls, tarp or the end of the hammock.) So sleep warm and comfy. There is nothing to worry about.