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  1. #41
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    OK I get it.
    I probably overreacted, it seemed so miserable with half of the posts saying how hammockers are not ultralighters, that weight is "just an academic issue" et c, while at the same time others where seeming to like talking about it.
    Then HappyCamper brought up good points twice (on page 2) which nobody commented, even after him saying "I'm probably outnumbered and being ignored"...
    I guess I sensed some evil oppression of "gram weenies", but that's just what it looked like of course...

  2. #42
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    Haha - nope, most of us are gram weenies to some extent. There aren't many people here who don't consider weight at all. By academic I just meant in the context of people who ACTUALLY base their hammock vs ground decision solely on weight...that's all. I guess I used those terms b/c I'm a recovering gram weenie making spreadsheets and stressing out over what I'm "allowed" to take based on weight/benefit/multi-use/etc. But now I just keep weight in mind when I buy new things, b/c my base is low enough that I can add back the luxuries that make my trips enjoyable again.

    Every now and then I still go stripped down just to see that I can do it.

    But weight is always a welcome topic here b/c most of us are hikers!
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

    - My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
    - Designer, Jeff's Gear Hammock / Pack Cover by JRB

    IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER

  3. #43
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    There are lots of things that have been discussed or outright innovated by folks on these forums to reduce weight more and more... whoopie sling suspensions, partial underquilts, spinntex tarps, cuben fiber hammocks, molly mac packs... weight savings are a concern to many people around these parts.


    I don't agree, however, that hammocking is the natural choice for lightweight hiking. To me, the natural choice there is something like a bivy bag or tiny little tarptent. I would be miserable sleeping in either of those, though Hammocking can be made very lightweight, but the insulation systems are almost always going to add additional weight you simply wouldn't see in an ultralight ground setup. Most of us are willing to pay that slight weight penalty for the massive increase in comfort, which is why we're here
    I mostly agree with that, and like you I am willing to make a slight ( or a little more than slight) weight concession for the comfort and being off the ground advantages. On the ground summer time off trail and outside a developed campground in MS, inside a bivy sack? Not me!

    But I don't completely agree about the weight disadvantage, because it depends on the temps and which system you are using and how much luxury room you want in your tarp. I'm thinking about Grand Trunk Nano or HH Hyperlite here, not much heavier than the bivy( and ground cloth?) they replace. And the HH tarp is about as light as they come. But the main thing I am considering there is: long before I ever heard of hammock camping, I would never be on the ground with a thin CCF pad. I would require a fairly thick inflatable, for cushioning, and they aren't light. And this is even in the hot summer time.

    So I need the cushioning( on the ground) all year long, but the hammock never needs cushioning(as we all know) while insulation varies greatly. Most of the summer and late spring/early fall in the south, I can get by with my WB torso UQ with just one layer of Climashield, at about 9 oz, or even just a few oz of thin torso pad, which I am carrying as a sit pad anyway. And if it is that time of the year when the lows are not below much 75, I am using nothing for under insulation. And that could save me a pound or two compared to my thick ground pad.

    So it seems to me that if it is not cold, and we are using a 16 oz( plus a few oz for he net) Speer hammock or something even lighter,and don't go over board with a huge tarp, the weight is not only just as light, but the weight advantage might actually switch to the hammock.

    Now for the truly hard core who will sleep on the ground on just a thin CCF pad, well, we can't compete with that, except when it is very warm. But I am assuming even the most hard core are not going to sleep on hard ground with no pad at all. So when it is summer in the south, we can still beat that.

    But most of us hangers value comfort above most everything, it seems. So we take our 2 plus pound hammocks and large tarps that would cover 3 ground dwellers, just for the sheer luxury of it all. And we are still way lighter than we were 5 years ago, plus way more comfortable and pretty happy with it all! Even if we could maybe save a pound or two by sleeping on CCF on the ground, and were willing to do so.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  4. #44
    Frawg's Avatar
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    I guess my general goal is, to paraphrase Einstein, to make everything as light as possible, but no lighter. The rub, of course, is in the definition of "possible".
    - Frawg

    {generic tagline}

  5. #45
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    Impossible just takes longer...

    "Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

    - My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
    - Designer, Jeff's Gear Hammock / Pack Cover by JRB

    IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER

  6. #46
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    Impossible just takes longer...
    That quote was something of a mantra where I was initially assigned.

    "Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
    ...and my second last assignment was in Space Ops.

    Interesting timing here, btw -- I was just contemplating plagiarizing one of your old notes.
    - Frawg

    {generic tagline}

  7. #47
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    Yep - that is interesting. Definitely something I've come to appreciate in my current assignment. Hopefully I can pass it on to the cadets in my next assignment.

    When did you get out/retire?
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

    - My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
    - Designer, Jeff's Gear Hammock / Pack Cover by JRB

    IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER

  8. #48
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    Yep - that is interesting. Definitely something I've come to appreciate in my current assignment. Hopefully I can pass it on to the cadets in my next assignment.
    Kinda thought from your CO winter hang post that you might be headed there. That's a great assignment; I was on the receiving end.

    When did you get out/retire?
    An infinite number of days ago... in 1989.

    Meant to ask -- instructor or AOC?
    - Frawg

    {generic tagline}

  9. #49
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    Instructor. Hoping to work with freefall during the year and survival training in the summers.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

    - My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
    - Designer, Jeff's Gear Hammock / Pack Cover by JRB

    IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER

  10. #50
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    Instructor. Hoping to work with freefall during the year and survival training in the summers.
    Cool! Should be an interesting experience from the other side, on all counts.
    - Frawg

    {generic tagline}

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