Who are the gram weenies?

[Just Jeff]

Big 3 Weight - Pack, Shelter, Bag (In our case...backpack, hammock w/ suspension, tarp w/ lines and stakes, top quilt)
Big 4 Weight - Pack, Shelter, Bag, Pad (In our case, just add bottom insulation...this would include everything you need for your basic system, like a SPE if you need it to make your bottom insulaton work.)

Base Weight - Weight of everything you need to carry for a trip, minus consumables. And no luxuries since you don't need to carry those. Base weight includes pack, shelter, top and bottom insulation, kitchen, extra insulation, water and fuel containers (empty), extra clothing (socks, shirts, etc), raingear, 10 essentials not already included (first aid kit, compass, etc), etc.

I always separate the luxuries like notebook and pencil, camera, games, slingshots, etc. It gets tricky for things like tarp tensioners...is that a luxury, or part of your tarp? I'd say stuff like that is really part of your Big 4 since you only use it for your shelter, even though you don't really need them. Same with rings or buckles in hammock suspension...if you've switched to a buckle system, it should be included in your Big 3.

From Skin Out Weight includes your worn gear...this is important b/c some people consider a down jacket "worn gear" but carry a lighter quilt and plan to augment it with their worn jacket. Kind of like cheating if you're comparing your weight to someone else's and omitting a necessary part of the insulation plan. I'd still leave luxuries out if I were comparing to someone else, but I add them in when I'm doing my own trip planning just so I know what I'm carrying.

This is how I define them, at least...obviously there are lots of opinions out there. HOW you define things only matters when you're comparing your weights to others'. And unless they're carrying your pack, that comparison doesn't matter! THAT you define them, in a way that can help you hit your target weight, is what's important.

[BillyBob58]

It looks like a pent up demand around here for gram weenie types of discussion, so let's bring it! My usual base weight hovers somewhere around 15lbs, but can depend a lot on what luxuries/toys I bring along such as Ipod speakers, gps, camera, SPOT, monocular, fishing gear etc. My philosophy is to employ ultralight methods wherever possible to get my weight down to where I can bring along luxury items and still have a reasonable weight to haul around. I just went on a 5-day Colorado backpacking trip where I brought along tons of luxury items and many redundancies for safety, such as backup lights, stoves and water treatment and still ended up in the 17lb base weight range.

For a weekend trip to attempt an SUL base weight, this is what I came up with:

(Carried)

WB Traveler hammock, SL 1.7 w/susp 15.60
Te-wa underquilt 12.65
2.00
................................
Montbell cat hole digger 1.40
Ditty bag 0.50

Total weight carried (lbs) 6.77

(Worn)

Rail riders adventure pants 10.3
..................
Oakley sunglasses 0.9

Total weight worn (lbs) 2.1

As you can see, I did not make SUL at 6.77lbs. .........................
This is a great discussion to have. It's making me stretch a bit on my kit, and actually I don't see that I'm really giving up that much at 6.77 lbs. Anybody see anything obvious that I missed?

Thanks for these gear lists. They give me something to work from. I'll try to print up one of my own soon.

On last years week long trip 2nd week of September to the Rockies( Wind Rivers) at Elevations well above 10000 ft., with expected lows in the 20s and possibly much lower, and still with nearly 6 lbs of McHale pack, I think my total weight was just a bit over 30 lbs, including food and water.That may sound like a lot, but I used to routinely take over 50 lbs ( as high as 75 with climbing and heavy cooking gear with NOLS in 85) on these trips, and it took me a lot of work to get it down to 45 lbs. So I am pretty tickled with very low 30s, though I am still steadily working lower.

Clearly I could immediately save about 3 lbs or so on my pack, and that right there would put me below 30.

I also was not as low in weight as I could have gone hammock wise. I took my Claytor double bottom No Net with cinch buckle on one end, enough CCF for emergency ground or unexpectedly extra severe weather, and a Pea Pod. Plus a large JRB tarp. I could have taken either my stock Speer with either the Pod or lighter weight pads or WB Torso CS UQ(but my son used that on his Claytor), or HHSS, I think any of these other choices would have saved me a lb or 2. But I sure was warm and comfortable, and we spent 12 hours a day in those hammocks. About the only thing I cut it close on was no top quilt with the Pea Pod. I was counting on my warm clothing, which was already carried and greatly appreciated around camp, to fluff up and fill the gap on top in the pod. I did just fine, but it would have been easier every night with a top quilt. I kept thinking how a JRB Stealth might have still served well as a camp jacket, and done a better job in the pod.

Maybe I can hit 25 lbs total next time without giving up any thing needed for safety and comfort!

Claytor No Net dbl bottom with suspension mods on one side:1lb15oz
Pea Pod 42 oz( 2 lb 10 oz) total 73 oz or 4.56 lbs

Speer 17 oz plus Pod 42 oz = 59 oz 3.68 lbs BUT Speer lifts pod higher off my body than Claytor, so might not be as warm thus need some additional top insulation. So that may be a wash wt. wise

Speer 17 oz with WB torso CS with 3 layers about 17 oz ( sit pad for legs carrying anyway) 34 oz or 2.15 lbs plus long JRB No Sniv with hood 25 oz= 57 oz/3.69 lbs.. now there is a potential huge weight saver here: using the NS plus hood as a jacket and leaving the 14 oz jacket behind. But unknown to me is: Will the No Sviv by itself on top be as warm ( or maybe even warmer) as my 14 oz jacket lofted over my top, put on backwards with arms through sleeves, inside a closed up Pea Pod?

There are a lot of pros and cons here.

But a good reason to use what I used is because I already had it, and it worked fine and was not all that heavy. Plus, I kind of preferred my Claytor.

Another option, that has real possibilities but would cost me about another .4 lbs over the heaviest set up above, is the Mt Wash 3, No Sniv with hood, and JRB BMBH. But again, how warm is the No Sniv with hood,as TQ, by itself? Low 20s? Not quite that warm?

PS: I forgot: HH UL EXP 41 oz
SS UC and pad 14 oz
SB 3 oz
kidney/torso pads 4 oz?= 62 oz/ 3.87 lb plus No Sniv with hood 25 oz= 87 oz/5.43 lb.

Heaviest by far, but I forgot that includes the tarp, so subtract 11 oz=76 oz/ 4.75 lb. Still the heaviest by a small amount, and probably not as warm, and bulkier. HOWEVER, synthetic pad and wind/rain block from UC allow using the lighter stock tarp IMO. So for the bigger, heavier tarps, need to add about 8 oz to all above weights for direct comparison. And one final thing: I would probably cut the net off for winter use or at least for direct comparison, so a few oz lighter than the above figures. And while we are at it, how about the HH over cover for a few oz? Every body says that is a major top warmth booster, helps keep the wind and fog out, and would help the TQ warmth?

[Pastorus]

Wow, Drew, looking at you list it seems like we've been bumping into each other shopping at the same stores.

Ray Jardine's Beyond Backpacking was my doorway to a lighter back country experience. It just makes sense.

In the race to a lighter pack some people take a shortcut that leads to minimalism. I like gear too much to consider myself a minimalist. I want everything, AND I want it as light as possible. Comfort and luxury of a good night sleep in a hammock literally outweighs the minimalist approach. For me it makes the challenge go get back to SUL even more exciting.

Starting with the lightest base allows me to consider the essentials of the adventure and then decide what toys to bring like a video camera, tunes, fishing gear, raft and cigar tube handle paddles, or my new DIY aluminum sling shot. My average summer pack with toys, food, fuel, and water is 16-18 pounds.

[BaloO]

First I wasnt much of a gram weenie... but now I'm more aware and cautious about what I pack in my gear... My last trip, the one I had to give up and cancel after just 20km my gear had a total wheight of 55 Ibs, not joking... Dont ask me what I was thinking, I dont know that myself. 55 Ibs for a 60km 3-4 days hike.


Now since then my gear has been stripped and the pack now has a weight of 33 Ibs (including 1 gallon water and food)


things I have removed from my pack:
* Trenchtool/shovel (approx 1000 grams)
* Poncho (1000 grams) If it rains, I'll setup my tarp and camp instead of hiking in the rain
* Food The RFMfrom the swedish armed forces is loaded with crap that I dont need, one day pack with breakfast/lunch/dinner weights about 1300 grams BUT!! 4 of these daypacks had 3000 grams of crap that I dont need in them

so far 5000 grams removed (11 Ibs) I have removed some of the clothing as well... Will not need it all.


My pack is still heavy, but yes now I'm a weenie... but not gram, I'm a kilo weenie.

[drewboy]

Hi Billybob. We did a trip last spring where the overnight temp got down to 22*. I used a JRB no sniveler and down hood on top. I supplemented this with a lightweight merino wool hoody, Montbell thermawrap jacket and merino wool leggings and stayed plenty warm at that temp. Almost too warm.

Another option, that has real possibilities but would cost me about another .4 lbs over the heaviest set up above, is the Mt Wash 3, No Sniv with hood, and JRB BMBH. But again, how warm is the No Sniv with hood,as TQ, by itself? Low 20s? Not quite that warm?

[Optimus]

I'm trying to go as light as possible with my base weight and of course still be comfortable. I have found (your results may very) that below about twenty pounds . . . it costs around 100$ a pound to go lighter with out losing functionality/ temp rating. Now there are various ways around some aspects (diy and such), but for the most part, my progression to the light side has been slow going at best, mostly due to cost.
morgage, happy wife . . . Dream setup

It's something I struggle with everyday . . .

Slopes

[Just Jeff]

Haha - "Weight is something I struggle with every day" means something different to a gram weenie, huh?

[Optimus]

. . . moral of the story = weight loss programs are expensive and can be challenging at times, but well worth the effort. IMHO

I just have to pace myself.

Slopes

[beep]

I meet at least one of the requirements for Gram Weenie-hood...I keep track of my gear weight with a spreadsheet!

Unless you actually weigh and keep track of things you wear/eat/drink/carry, your membership in the GWC ("Gram Weenie Contingent") may be revoked!!

Oh, and my warm-weather gear (carried, no food or water) is 17 - 18 lbs (lighter if ground dwelling, heavier if hanging).

[animalcontrol]

My loaded summer weekend pack including food and 2 ltrs water...19lbs (including misc luxury items - book, mp3, pillow)
I could easily lose that 19lbs and be a negative # if I got serious about my diet, but that is a different topic!