I don't get it.

[dingbat]

Another note, I'm a side sleeper and like to lay in the fetal position. I have yet to find a cold spot or any discomfort in my hammock with using my pad.

How wide is your pad? I'm about the same size as you and couldn't even start to do that without having some body part pushing against the hammock fabric without pad in between. Granted, the newest pad I own is from 1995, but it's the biggest, thickest pad Thermarest made at the time.

[sargevining]

Ok, first, all of my testing is done in my yard. I work 2nd shift and after I eat my supper I usually get in for about 3 hours each night. My wife thinks hammocks are stupid so I sneak these "naps" in and then go to bed before she wakes up (she works 1st shift). As luck would have it, the nights that I do get to stay in it all night haven't been that cold, 17* I think was the coldest and I got the inside temp up to 54* in about 6 hours. My Pak-IT-Lite hammock is a 4 season hammock, I had a custom window put in for better air flow in the summer. Here's a link to pics of it: https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...-F-O-B-Hammock! The design of my hammock has a feature that I wasn't sure if I like about it first, but have come to really appreciate it. Tony designed the hammock so that the pad would actually "curl" around you for warmth. This has proven to work great with the extra insulation in the footbox of the MSS as the pad semi curls around my feet and keeps them comfortably warm. Another note, I'm a side sleeper and like to lay in the fetal position. I have yet to find a cold spot or any discomfort in my hammock with using my pad. Being that the MSS is modular, I only use the complete system when I need it. I didn't even start using it until it got down into the 30's, just a wool blanket. When it's warmer weather I use a small fleece sleeping bag liner, if I want something warm but light weight. Here's a link to some pics of my set up: https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...eat-loss/page2.

In one of the other threads you linked to, you say that you use a Klymit Static V pad. Specs show that this pad is 23 inches wide. I'm having a hard time envisioning how any amount of sewing can get a 23" pad to curl enough to cover my sides and shoulders, especially if in a fetal position. That's the principal problem most of us have with pads.

[SilvrSurfr]

A Term-a-rest NeoAir Xtherm inflatable pad has an R-value of 5.7 and weights 15 oz.

Those R-values are for using the pad on the ground, without convective air underneath. Once you use the pad in a hammock, the R-value will be considerably diminished.

[dakotaross]

While we're at this...

Is there a pad made, or is there a custom pad shop, where one can get a pad that is inflatable (less bulk), wide for hammock coverage (at least 24"), and short? Short because all the pads I've used that weren't ended up riding up the ends of the hammock, adversely affecting the flatness of the lay, and just generally being uncomfortable. Tried cutting some CCF to make it work, but just can't deal with the bulk.

Used to have a GG pack where I could pack a pad vertically. That worked ok, but it still stuck out a lot. Going wider than the std 20" makes ordinary horizontal packing of a CCF pad a nuisance on the trail - seems to get caught a lot, and much harder to negotiate downed trees, etc.

[Deathstar77]

Bottom line is that there are pros and cons to both a pad, and an underquilt. It's a matter of personal preference, and that's not debatable. Whatever is warm and comfortable and makes you happy is just exactly what is needed, whatever that is.

That said, I started with a pad and now I use quilts. It's not right or wrong. It just is.

This is definitely the bottom line.

[HangingOut]

While we're at this...

Is there a pad made, or is there a custom pad shop, where one can get a pad that is inflatable (less bulk), wide for hammock coverage (at least 24"), and short? Short because all the pads I've used that weren't ended up riding up the ends of the hammock, adversely affecting the flatness of the lay, and just generally being uncomfortable. Tried cutting some CCF to make it work, but just can't deal with the bulk.

Used to have a GG pack where I could pack a pad vertically. That worked ok, but it still stuck out a lot. Going wider than the std 20" makes ordinary horizontal packing of a CCF pad a nuisance on the trail - seems to get caught a lot, and much harder to negotiate downed trees, etc.

Thermarest makes the NeoAir Xtherm in the long version that is 77" x 25" and there is a real niffy video on Youtube on how to cut them down to a shorter size.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kumSl-cbLlY
I did this modification on a long Xtherm and it works great. The saving grace to this method is that if it leaks just cut it back one more section and seal it again.

BTW, if you make a 6" sleeve that fits over the end of your inflatable pad and sew a strip of Velcro on the bottom of it and on your hammock you can stick the pad it in place and it will never move. I have done that to all my hammocks. Works great.

[XTrekker]

I can understand using a UQ if you have no way of using a pad, but for the money, in my experience, a pad's more cost effective and works just as good if not better than most of the UQ's out there. I'm using a Solar Ridgerest (r value 3.5) and that's it period. I'm sleeping in the Military Sleep system without the bivi, just black and green bags and I've been down to -7 with a windchill of -25 and stayed plenty warm. I didn't even wear a coat or sweatshirt, just tee shirt, sweatpants and regular socks. I've even got a digital thermometer inside and at those temps my body heat got it to 34* inside. Not trying to slam anyone, it's just my assessment from my personal experience.

I started out with pads at first. They did the job but were a real pain to keep centered under my body if I shifted around at all during the night.
Eventually I upgraded to goose down UQs and have never looked back. HYOH

Interesting, I'm learning a lot here. No, I'm not a backpacker, more of a survivalist/prepper I guess. My backpacking distances are going to be determined on how far the grand kids can go so I've been practicing shorter distances with more of what we need to make it somewhere. I'm going to do some short distance backpacking with the grand kids this summer to get a better idea. I do pack for in case I have to go to the ground also, so a pad is an important option for me. Cost is a major factor in my purchases, I don't have much money and doubt if I'll ever be able to afford a UQ just to see if it works better for me or not, so a pad will have to do for now.

You can backpack with pads just fine. I did it for awhile with no issues. There is no real significant difference in weight between the two. Just difference in bulk and comfort. As for that MSS,..... well that's a different story.

[Athens-m50]

my issue is that my shoulders are too wide for my Therom pad....and I feel that I am holding my arms crossed so my shoulders are not hanging off the pad....and getting cold.....and I wake up with them KILLING me in the middle of the night....

UQ for me all the way.

[theseakayaker]

I don't think that an underquilt for the Pak-It-Lite is a great idea. If I understood the designer correctly, he tailored the hammock to provide a flatter lay with a pad. This likely means that the pad is needed to straighten out the hammock, and the lay might actually be less comfortable with an uq. I just bought a Hammock Bliss Sky Bed hammock; this is another hammock designed specifically for pad use. I tried lying in it without a pad, and it's horrible. With a pad it feels unusual but nice. So before buying an underquilt, I would check that the hammock feels alright without the support of a pad.

hutzelbein, A camp pad does not make the hammock lay flatter. It's how the hammock is cut and shaped that makes it lay flat. An UQ will work with my hammocks but because how the hammock is engineered, finding an UQ that fill fit may be an issue. I say "may" because I have never had to use an UQ with my hammocks for cold temps. The F.O.B has been tested to -2ºF with many back packing trips with temps into the single digits. The Patented design of the top enclosure and DLS (double layer system), along with a good pad, trap a lot of heat. I have used an poncho liner as an UQ when I did a sea kayaking trip and forgot my pad. The liner worked great!

[TZ75man]

Mine was tested down to -7* with a wind chill of -25*. Warm once I got in and stayed warm the entire time, but I only wear t-shirt and sweat pants in my hammock and getting in and out I froze my butt off! lol