Underquilt Protector - Necessary?

[SilvrSurfr]

I do feel an uqp serves a more valuable function than just a way to make up for an undersized tarp. IMO it helps slow the warmth being bled off from your underquilt.

I would certainly consider a UQP if I were using a hex tarp or a tarp without doors, but I'm using a 4-season HG Winter Palace with doors, and just don't have an issue with wind robbing my quilts of warmth.

I've definitely had times when using my hex tarps where I thought "Gee, a UQP would really help right now" to protect against wind and blowing rain. At the end of a long day in the backcountry, you can't always practice the art of site selection, unless you have a lot of time on your hands. On one paddling trip in the Adirondacks last year, my son was using my silnylon hex tarp and wanted to set up between two trees right on the water's edge. It had rained all day, the air was saturated, and a brisk wind was coming off the water. I explained to him that he couldn't use those two trees because the wind/water would just blow in the ends and leave him cold and wet (it was a very scenic place to hang - great view).

"Then let me have your Winter Palace," he said. Ha! Not gonna happen. We finally found two trees that would allow the tarp to take the wind broadside.

[JoshuaTrees]

I really don't want to ignite the never ending debate over how warm air travels in and out of our gear(because I'm really not scientifically qualified) but seems to me creating an extra air space for warm air to get trapped in would improve the situation regardless of what the wind is doing

[Suede]

Mmmmm tarp steaks.

Haha!! you no what i meant but it is nice to kook up a good stake.

[SilvrSurfr]

I really don't want to ignite the never ending debate over how warm air travels in and out of our gear(because I'm really not scientifically qualified) but seems to me creating an extra air space for warm air to get trapped in would improve the situation regardless of what the wind is doing

I'm sure it does if weight is no object. A ripstop UQP is 6.5 ounces; an Argon UQP is 5.4 ounces. Would you be better off with 6.5 ounces more of insulation, 6.5 more ounces of tarp, or a UQP?

I had a HG CF Standard tarp that weighed 6.5 ounces and I didn't like the coverage - it made no sense to me to get a UQP that weighed as much, or almost as much as the tarp itself. It made more sense to me to get a bigger tarp; the HG Winter Palace, at 8.5 ounces. So for 2 ounces and 25% more weight, I really don't have any concerns about wind robbing warmth or splash. If they came out with a breathable cuben fiber UQP that didn't cost a fortune, I might consider it, but it definitely would cost a fortune.

If you're talking silnylon, let's look at the numbers with a Warbonnet Edge + UQP, versus a Warbonnet Superfly. The Warbonnet Edge plus Argon UQP is 11.25 plus 5.4 ounces, or 16.65 ounces. Warbonnet Edge plus ripstop UQP is 17.75 ounces. Or you could get a Superfly at 19 ounces.

The Edge plus Argon UQP is 13% lighter than a Superfly; the Edge plus ripstop UQP is 7% lighter. The gram weenie in me says that UQPs make no sense. Of course, really obsessive gram weenies would say, "Yippy! I saved 2.35 ounces by dumping the Superfly and getting an Edge plus Argon UQP!" or "I saved 1.25 ounces by dumping the Superfly and getting an Edge plus ripstop UQP!"

That sounds stupid light to me. I'd rather have a bigger tarp.

[JoshuaTrees]

Agreed, in your scenario of weight vs warmth you couldn't be more right. I don't even have to double check your math to know that. The OP question was in regard to weather/moisture protection, and my point was in addition to helping with that, it provides an additional thermal barrier as an added benefit. Plus an UQP gives you more options when packing for a trip. If the weather is sure to be fair, you can leave the UQP at home. In your scenario you're always going to be bringing extra tarp that you may not need.

[slammiam]

Thank you for the replies. This type of anecdotal information really helps. SS, I get your perspective. When I weighed the pros and cons of everything, the edge tarp made the most sense to me at the time. I considered the winter palace, but **** that thing looks huge. The accounts of the UQP acting as the moisture block for windborn mist/fog/etc. was what I was interested in, and for that purpose it seems to work quite well. Now, I have to decide between argon, or the wider/heavier version from 2qzq. The wider version seems to make more sense, due to less chance of compressing the outer down.

[Suede]

I'm sure it does if weight is no object. A ripstop UQP is 6.5 ounces; an Argon UQP is 5.4 ounces. Would you be better off with 6.5 ounces more of insulation, 6.5 more ounces of tarp, or a UQP?

I had a HG CF Standard tarp that weighed 6.5 ounces and I didn't like the coverage - it made no sense to me to get a UQP that weighed as much, or almost as much as the tarp itself. It made more sense to me to get a bigger tarp; the HG Winter Palace, at 8.5 ounces. So for 2 ounces and 25% more weight, I really don't have any concerns about wind robbing warmth or splash. If they came out with a breathable cuben fiber UQP that didn't cost a fortune, I might consider it, but it definitely would cost a fortune.

If you're talking silnylon, let's look at the numbers with a Warbonnet Edge + UQP, versus a Warbonnet Superfly. The Warbonnet Edge plus Argon UQP is 11.25 plus 5.4 ounces, or 16.65 ounces. Warbonnet Edge plus ripstop UQP is 17.75 ounces. Or you could get a Superfly at 19 ounces.

The Edge plus Argon UQP is 13% lighter than a Superfly; the Edge plus ripstop UQP is 7% lighter. The gram weenie in me says that UQPs make no sense. Of course, really obsessive gram weenies would say, "Yippy! I saved 2.35 ounces by dumping the Superfly and getting an Edge plus Argon UQP!" or "I saved 1.25 ounces by dumping the Superfly and getting an Edge plus ripstop UQP!"

That sounds stupid light to me. I'd rather have a bigger tarp.

I have a CF standard with doors and conceptually for me, I prefer the protection right next to me as opposed to the larger area under the tarp. I love the winter palace but it's just cost prohibitive for me. I like the idea of trapping another layer of air right next to me to provide that more "sealed" environment of dead air. I think anyway you cut it, the air is more dead and thus has a lesser chance of robbing heat, but that isn't really the OP's original question, so I digress.. I know hyoh and all that and the great thing is there are more than one way to things in this community. Yes, I am gaining 6 oz in pack weight but that's a choice. I left my camera at home last trip which saved me 7 oz..

[slammiam]

For the record, my hiking philosophy is one of lightweight vs. ultralight vs. heavy. I won't think twice about carrying an extra pound or two. I went the ultra route and had a better experience carrying more weight with a few creature comforts.

[JoshuaTrees]

Thank you for the replies. This type of anecdotal information really helps. SS, I get your perspective. When I weighed the pros and cons of everything, the edge tarp made the most sense to me at the time. I considered the winter palace, but **** that thing looks huge. The accounts of the UQP acting as the moisture block for windborn mist/fog/etc. was what I was interested in, and for that purpose it seems to work quite well. Now, I have to decide between argon, or the wider/heavier version from 2qzq. The wider version seems to make more sense, due to less chance of compressing the outer down.

I've owned both the standard ripstop and an argon90 I'm currently using and prefer the Argon90.
IMO they both come plenty large and I wouldn't sweat the extra fabric width.

[slammiam]

I've owned both the standard ripstop and an argon90 I'm currently using and prefer the Argon90.
IMO they both come plenty large and I wouldn't sweat the extra fabric width.

Awesome, thanks.