For those worried about the basket hitch slipping down the tree.
I've never had such trouble, though I generally use one round turn for small-diameter trees/posts to mitigate that risk. The larger the diameter (i.e., the more contact area), the greater the friction.
i've had them slide down the tree without the choker. you're right though, won't happen with a full wrap
Besides, the stitching in the loop would rail way before the webbing broke. That is the weakest point of the setup in my opinion-which is why i use heavy duty nylon thread for my huggers.
As usual when it comes to this kind of conversation I am at a loss to understand the issue. Having looked at the picture in the first post I can see the issue being a problem with the bridge style hammock and the suspension triangles but I can't quite get my mind wrapped around the significance with a gathered end set up. Is the concern unique to a particular kind of suspension system? or what's the fuss? I use the standard webbing/ring buckle/biner set up. Is this something that pertains to me and if so how so?
I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.
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Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn
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I imagine the concern is at the tree end of the strap, not the hammock end. The concern is similar to the familiar one we associate with a shallow sag angle.Originally Posted by Ramblinrev
- Frawg
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Now imagine that the tree is at the top of that picture, with the hugger or suspension line raping around it and the lower point of each of them is where your carabiner or D Clip joins the two points and your suspension would travel downward from there to the hammock. The more constricted the angle (say shorter huger) the more force each section of the huger is taking. Now for us versus climber, the force is less of an issue, like Brandon commented it is possible to break webbing in our application, but much less consequence than for climbers. We get a sore butt, they die. Now the other option is to rap the webbing around and thread back through one of the loops, that would be like the example here
Frawg is exactly right in that the same sort of issue comes into play with a suspension that is strung to tightly and without sufficient sag. Forgetting that the sag offers increased comfort, to tight a hang also increases the stress on the suspension. Hope that came out half way clear, I am no engineer and no where close to a mathematician. But have the working feel of some of this from the climbing, and that comes down to do this don't do this or you die. Hammocks are some much more laid back. Again for the most part from the hammock side of things its a null point as we are just not going to put the same sorts of forces on our lines as in a climbing or crane rigging situation, i don't know about you but I am not lifting a 10,000 pound beam 30 stories up, or taking a 50 foot fall off my hammock rig. If I were then yes by the book on how to rig it properly.
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I am an engineer.
Just did some quick calculations out of curiosity. If you hang from a 12 inch diameter tree and set the choke point 1" from the tree trunk, the forces will be comparable to those from a 31 degree sag angle. IOW, the choke point forces are about the same as those due to a typical hang. Setting the choke point any farther from the tree reduces the force even further.
Not much to fret over, IMHO.
Edit:that corresponds to the 120* angle at the top of Paul's diagram, in which the induced force in each leg is the same as the applied force.
Last edited by Frawg; 09-28-2009 at 17:33.
- Frawg
{generic tagline}
I know they are a pain, but the JRB tri glides would be good for keeping the angle correct.
Predictions are risky, especially when it comes to the future.
I don't mean to be sowing fretting.Not much to fret over, IMHO.
As it appears to me, this is clearly important *if* (as stated in my initial post) strength-to-weight ratio is important (which seems to be so, for many users on this forum).
For example, it makes little sense to use ultralight rope only to compromise its strength with a weak knot when a stronger alternative is available.
To be obvious: The strength of a system reflects not only the materials, but also the way in which they are used.
By the way, this is not only about angles, it's also about using two legs instead of one.
No sweat!I don't mean to be sowing fretting.
If maintaining maximum strength were the only criterion, I'd agree. I think discussion can rapidly get overly general and ambiguous at this point, though, so I'll leave it at that. Some of the other factors are sprinkled through the rather extensive discussions on UCRs, whoopie slings and tree huggers. We have not been unmindful of strength issues.For example, it makes little sense to use ultralight rope only to compromise its strength with a weak knot when a stronger alternative is available.
Yup...obvious!To be obvious: The strength of a system reflects not only the materials, but also the way in which they are used.
By the way, this is not only about angles, it's also about using two legs instead of one.
- Frawg
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