Hammock Gear standard cuben tarp or winter palace?

[Dochartaigh]

I have an 8.5 oz. HG Winter Palace circus tent

I should also point out that the winter palace doesn't weigh 8.5 ounces anymore if there's gram weenies reading this topic. The website lists the old weights and both the standard with doors and the winter palace are now about 13% heavier due to design/build enhancements (according to Adam it has new hardware, larger grosgrain, longer ridgeline, and he's using a new tape for the ridgeline seam). All said and done (if you like things like cuben snakeskins and a piece of Dutch bling or two) you're probably dealing with 14+ ounces for a decked out winter palace now (less, of course, if you run it bare-bones). My own standard with doors comes in at 12.14 ounces with cuben snakeskin, zPacks 1.25mm Zline guylines, MSR carbon core stakes, and 2x dutch fleaz for the ridgeline.

That being said, if we're talking about the 11' long version of both tarps, the only difference is the WP is 2 feet longer on each side (8'6" vs 10'4"). Pitch the standard with doors 2 feet lower and you'll have the same weather protection as the winter palace albeit with less headroom. I had the Superfly before which is roughly same size as WP, and I found it to be a little bit too much tarp for me (they're huge!). Granted, unlke SilvSurfr, I've never made it through monsoon conditions with any of my tarps, just your regular downpours and thunderstorms.

[SilvrSurfr]

I'm definitely not counting the accoutrements on my HG Winter Palace.. So yes, it will weigh more than 8.5 oz., just as a 19 oz. silnylon Superfly actually weighs a lot more once you count in the stakes, ridgeline, etc.

[howlinmadman]

I should also point out that the winter palace doesn't weigh 8.5 ounces anymore if there's gram weenies reading this topic. The website lists the old weights and both the standard with doors and the winter palace are now roughly 15% heavier due to design/build enhancements. All said and done (if you like things like cuben snakeskins and a piece of Dutch bling or two) you're probably dealing with 14+ ounces for a decked out winter palace now (less, of course, if you run it bare-bones). My own standard with doors comes in at 12.14 ounces with cuben snakeskin, zPacks 1.25mm Zline guylines, MSR carbon core stakes, and 2x dutch fleaz for the ridgeline.

That being said, if we're talking about the 11' long version of both tarps, the only difference is the WP is 2 feet longer on each side (8'6" vs 10'4"). Pitch the standard with doors 2 feet lower and you'll have the same coverage as the winter palace albeit with less headroom. I had the Superfly before which is roughly same size as WP, and I found it to be a little bit too much tarp for me (they're huge!). Granted, unlke SilvSurfr, I've only made it through normal types of downpours with any of my tarps and never had a problem with any (even my regular 12' non-door type tarp).

This gives me a little pause about getting a cuben tarp now. My Mamajamba although it doesn't have doors weighs 16 ounces with all suspension lines. If a cuben comes in at 12 ounces that's not much of a weight savings for the money, although I would like doors!

[Dochartaigh]

Yeah, you definitely have to do the math very carefully. I also thought my cuben tarp was going to save more weight than it really did. You could shave maybe 3/4-1 ounce off my tarps weight by just going bare tarp + guylines and using knots and such (no linelocs or snakeskins or dutch bling).

My WarBonnet SuperFly with zing-it guylines, 1 gram line locs, stuff sack and mountain goat sleeves was 23.05 ounces (don't think I even counted stakes in that weight; info is from my older spreadsheet), so regardless I still definitely saved a pretty sizable chunk of weight going with the cuben tarp with doors - if that's worth ~double the price+ is also another consideration. I'm also pretty positive my HG tarp with doors is a lot more bulky than my superfly was as well - yet something else to think about (they never make this decision making process easy!).


And SilvrSurfr, did you find the real advantage of the WP was the longer sides? Or did being able to pitch the WP higher because of the longer sides (thus having the option to put your hammock higher as well) help in severe weather conditions? I've never had rain splash up high enough to touch anything, and was always able to close the doors all the way (except for maybe a 2" gap for the tree straps to go through) so I've beed pretty fortunate with all my tarp setups and rain so far.

[SilvrSurfr]

The starting weight of a Superfly is 19 ounces. The starting weight of an HG Winter Palace is 8.6 ounces. So that's a huge difference for me. I don't need to go any further to understand that a Winter Palace weighs less.

[silentorpheus]

I should also point out that the winter palace doesn't weigh 8.5 ounces anymore if there's gram weenies reading this topic. The website lists the old weights and both the standard with doors and the winter palace are now about 13% heavier due to design/build enhancements (according to Adam it has new hardware, larger grosgrain, longer ridgeline, and he's using a new tape for the ridgeline seam). All said and done (if you like things like cuben snakeskins and a piece of Dutch bling or two) you're probably dealing with 14+ ounces for a decked out winter palace now (less, of course, if you run it bare-bones). My own standard with doors comes in at 12.14 ounces with cuben snakeskin, zPacks 1.25mm Zline guylines, MSR carbon core stakes, and 2x dutch fleaz for the ridgeline.

That being said, if we're talking about the 11' long version of both tarps, the only difference is the WP is 2 feet longer on each side (8'6" vs 10'4"). Pitch the standard with doors 2 feet lower and you'll have the same weather protection as the winter palace albeit with less headroom. I had the Superfly before which is roughly same size as WP, and I found it to be a little bit too much tarp for me (they're huge!). Granted, unlke SilvSurfr, I've never made it through monsoon conditions with any of my tarps, just your regular downpours and thunderstorms.

This gives me a little pause about getting a cuben tarp now. My Mamajamba although it doesn't have doors weighs 16 ounces with all suspension lines. If a cuben comes in at 12 ounces that's not much of a weight savings for the money, although I would like doors!

The starting weight of a Superfly is 19 ounces. The starting weight of an HG Winter Palace is 8.6 ounces. So that's a huge difference for me. I don't need to go any further to understand that a Winter Palace weighs less.

You definitely have to compare base weight to base weight, if you're going to make a valid comparison. The various additions like lines, hardware, stakes, etc. will either be the same for both (if you just swap one to the other) or may also vary. For example on my Superfly I use shock cord and line lok tensioners at all corner tie outs, have tabs on the panel pulls for pole mods, mesh snake skins, shock cord on all door tie outs, etc., for full comfort and versatility while car camping. Where as for my Winter Palace I have cuben skins, basic zing it guy lines with no tensioners or hardware, zing it for the doors, etc. - a lightweight suspension set up for a lightweight tarp.

The Warbonnet website lists the base weight of the MJ tarp at 14oz (and that's without doors) and the Superfly at 19oz. HG lists the Cuben standard at 6.5oz and the WP at 8.5oz. Even if they're a touch more due to new construction, they both weigh considerably less than either of the Warbonnet tarps. There's no getting around that, no matter how you look at it. Is that difference worth double (or more) the price to you? That's something only you can answer.

As for the real world coverage difference between the standard and winter palace, there are plenty of experienced folk (Shug, Fronkey, etc.) that have documented plenty of inclement weather where they stayed high and dry using the cuben standard. Of course the WP will give you more complete coverage, and you could make an argument that the standard isn't really 4-season whereas the WP is. But chances are in all but the wildest of weather you'd be able to stay dry using the standard, though the tradeoff would be less headroom/space under the standard to get the same protection the WP gives you (with all that room too).

[howlinmadman]

You definitely have to compare base weight to base weight, if you're going to make a valid comparison. The various additions like lines, hardware, stakes, etc. will either be the same for both (if you just swap one to the other) or may also vary. For example on my Superfly I use shock cord and line lok tensioners at all corner tie outs, have tabs on the panel pulls for pole mods, mesh snake skins, shock cord on all door tie outs, etc., for full comfort and versatility while car camping. Where as for my Winter Palace I have cuben skins, basic zing it guy lines with no tensioners or hardware, zing it for the doors, etc. - a lightweight suspension set up for a lightweight tarp.

The Warbonnet website lists the base weight of the MJ tarp at 14oz (and that's without doors) and the Superfly at 19oz. HG lists the Cuben standard at 6.5oz and the WP at 8.5oz. Even if they're a touch more due to new construction, they both weigh considerably less than either of the Warbonnet tarps. There's no getting around that, no matter how you look at it. Is that difference worth double (or more) the price to you? That's something only you can answer.

As for the real world coverage difference between the standard and winter palace, there are plenty of experienced folk (Shug, Fronkey, etc.) that have documented plenty of inclement weather where they stayed high and dry using the cuben standard. Of course the WP will give you more complete coverage, and you could make an argument that the standard isn't really 4-season whereas the WP is. But chances are in all but the wildest of weather you'd be able to stay dry using the standard, though the tradeoff would be less headroom/space under the standard to get the same protection the WP gives you (with all that room too).

Well said! That's why I like posting questions on here before I make a big purchase such as a cuben fiber tarp or any other gear for that matter. I get everyone's opinion, some may not agree with others but that's your opinion and its what I was asking for so I could then make my own decision. I still haven't made up my mind but am leaning in a certain direction. I want to get out a few more times with my current set up to see which one I think would better serve my needs! Heck I may even scrap the tarp completely and go with some new quilts!

[Suede]

I have been using a HG standard with doors for a few years now and never gotten wet, or my gear under it. You just need to pitch everything a bit lower than a wider tarp. I am quite satisfied with the 8.5 width. You can always get a bit of wind coming through unless it's all the way down to the ground which I never do anyway, and if you did I would worry about condensation.

[Fish<><]

I think one thing that should be said as example is a warm weather haelstrom. I went camping last October with my dad and older brother in pretty warm weather and that night it started storming. Of course since it was warm I had the doors open on my standard I got up and dropped the sides down before all hades broke loose, but i left the ends open and got soaked due to that fact. I personally won't use that tarp again for warm weather in case of one of those sudden storms like that. Being trapped in a bubble of plastic at 80 degrees in humidity isn't fun. I'll choose a larger tarp for longer and wider coverage so i can still have ventilation but not get wet like i did that night. On a side note, it was both of their first times hammocking and my brother faired better than I did. I felt bad for my dad though, his tarp turned into a swimming pool that trapped him in the hammock and he had to cut his way out. It was a fun learning experience.

[SilvrSurfr]

I think it depends on where you camp regularly. I didn't have good luck with the HG standard. I got wet often. I've never gotten wet with the HG Winter Palace.