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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    in case anyone is wondering, i use vectrus 12 by Yale ropes (1/8" 2000 lbs tensile strength), which is available from apsltd.com by the foot, and i must say that they have the most extensive selection of lines and twines that i know of...Brandon
    What are your thoughts on the 1/8" vectrus 12 versus the 1/8" amsteel 12?
    (both on this page: http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e827.asp)

    Also, how is the abrasion resistance and "knotability" of these non-jacketed lines?

  2. #22
    teir site is having problems, i believe the amsteel is spectra, the vectrus 12 is vectran. the weights and strengths are about identical from what i recall, i chose the vectran b/c it isn't supposed to creep like spectra (strech slowly through the night) i didn't know about the uncovered cord at first, but the vectrus 12 seems to have pretty good abrasion restiance. it seems a little slick like spectra, but i tie a single sheetbend finished with a bight, this will slip, so i tighten the bight as if to pop it out, and just before it pops, put a second bight of slack through the first bight, cinch the first bight down on the second one to finish. two pulls and the bights pop and the knott falls apart.

    i used to use the covered vectran (crystaline) but the 3mm has a loose cover which was kind of a pain. + the 3mm vectrus 12 is stronger and lighter...Brandon



    Quote Originally Posted by ryndel View Post
    What are your thoughts on the 1/8" vectrus 12 versus the 1/8" amsteel 12?
    (both on this page: http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e827.asp)

    Also, how is the abrasion resistance and "knotability" of these non-jacketed lines?

  3. #23
    yeah, thats specifically the 3mm crystaline they are talking about, is that the stuff you had? the 2mm is nice and stiff, but on the 3mm, they don't make a cover for it, they just use their 4mm cover and as a result the cord handles completely different. if the rope gets twisted and begins to twist back on itself, the loose cover will open up a bit and the twisted part will poke through. i don't think the problem would cause the line to be any weaker though. you can actually fix it by pulling it through your hands real hard from end to end, but that is why i switched to the uncovered single braid vectran which i think performs awsome...Brandon


    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    I had to recently return the 1/8" Vectrus to APS - they are having a LOT of problems with the Vetran kinking under the covering and then rupturing through. They thought that Yale had fixed the problem, but I don't think so from my experience with the "fixed" line.

  4. #24
    to keep the ends from fraying, i have been forcing them to fray about 1/4"-3/8" and then taking a dab of silicone caulk/glue and squishing it into the core of the line and then just roll the fray back together. the silicone works great, remains flexible and seems permanent.
    as for the prussics, i use #18 braided nylon construction/mason line. this works the best because it is a much smaller diameter and is very loose (not stiff) i just use an extra wrap or two and just give it a tug to tighten it before hooking something up. i looked at both the spyderline and the samson, but i think they were both heavier than the vectran, and the no creep factor of vectran are what did it for me. speaking of, can you notice the creep on your spectra/dyneema lines? and do you think the single braid spectra absorbs less water?
    also did you read on their website about the new spectra that is streached under heat. it makes it considerably stronger withoud adding wt. and gets rid of most of the creep. i think it was only available in large diameter last time i checked...Brandon


    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    You must be able to pull a lot harder than I could - once it ruptured, that was it.

    I decided to switch instead to the Spyderline for the suspension.

    I have the APS 1/8" AS-78 Samson. 100% Dyneema SK-78 single braid and rated at 2,900 lbs. Testing that for various things right now. If I decide I like it, I might replace the Spyderline with it.

    Decided I didn't like Vectran. Impossible to heat seal the ends. The Vectran just burns, won't heat seal. The only good and convenient way I could find to whip the ends is to use heat shrink tubing: place a small drop of cyanoacrylate ( super glue - I like Goat Tuff better ) near the end, slide the tubing over and use a heat gun to shrink. The heat cures the glue fast and the glue makes it impossible to remove the heat shrink tubing. Makes nice clean whipping. Makes it a real pain to use the Vectrus 12 since without whipping the end, the ribbons comprising the weave of the single braid unravel easily. Also, I've found that the Vectrus 12 holds water in the weave and takes a long time to dry and that then has affected the coating, turning it from the deep green I got to a green/white color. Also, the coating on the Vectrus 12 single braids make it difficult/impossible to find a cord for Prussiks knots that doesn't slide like crazy on it. I like the low/no creep property, but not too sure that would over-ride what I didn't like.

  5. #25
    i checked their site, that AS-78 was not there the last time i ordered. it is way stronger for the same diameter, although the weight is only given for the larger diameters, they are all stronger and lighter than the vectran. have you weighed it? i think i'm going to order some and try it out too...Brandon


    [QUOTE=TeeDee;16993
    I have the APS 1/8" AS-78 Samson. 100% Dyneema SK-78 single braid and rated at 2,900 lbs. Testing that for various things right now. If I decide I like it, I might replace the Spyderline with it.

  6. #26
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    as for the prussics, i use #18 braided nylon construction/mason line. this works the best because it is a much smaller diameter and is very loose (not stiff) i just use an extra wrap or two and just give it a tug to tighten it before hooking something up.
    Yes - that probably works. Have you tested under heavy load - something on the order of twice your weight? That gives a factor of your weight as a safety factor. Does the mason line list a rating - I rather doubt it, since that wouldn't be a factor for that use. For my intended use I wouldn't want to use anything rated less than at least 400 lbs. I find the BPL guyline expensive, but the rating is where I want it. Only problem is it is coated also and so with another coated line, the Prussik can slip under moderate to heavy load.

    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    i looked at both the spyderline and the samson, but i think they were both heavier than the vectran,
    The weights listed by APS for the Spyderline is so close to the Vectrus 12 that any difference wouldn't be noticed. The AS-78 is listed as much lighter than the Vectrus 12 for those for which weights are listed - so I assume the 1/8" is much lighter also.

    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    can you notice the creep on your spectra/dyneema lines? and do you think the single braid spectra absorbs less water?
    I haven't noticed any creep - but I haven't done any measurements either. From my observations I haven't seen any water absorption by the double or single braid spectra lines that I have. The water runs off and doesn't hold in the weave.

    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    also did you read on their website about the new spectra that is streached under heat. it makes it considerably stronger withoud adding wt. and gets rid of most of the creep. i think it was only available in large diameter last time i checked...Brandon
    Yeah that stuff is very interesting - the creep has been stretched out already. If they had it in 1/8" I'd buy about 50' to experiment with.

    Also, the Paraloc stuff is interesting, but the ratings are kind of low for dyneema.

  7. #27
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    BPL.com can do some pretty thorough testing when they get onto a project. this would be a great test to do if they could be convinced to do it... testing the actual breaking points of a number of different cords, using different attachment methods & knots.
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  8. #28
    what are you putting such heavy loads on the pruissiks for?, i just use them to tighten my tarps riggeline just like a hh. and the mason's line is about equal in strength to a mammut accessory cord i bought that was rated to about 125 lbs.



    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    Yes - that probably works. Have you tested under heavy load - something on the order of twice your weight? That gives a factor of your weight as a safety factor. Does the mason line list a rating - I rather doubt it, since that wouldn't be a factor for that use. For my intended use I wouldn't want to use anything rated less than at least 400 lbs. I find the BPL guyline expensive, but the rating is where I want it. Only problem is it is coated also and so with another coated line, the Prussik can slip under moderate to heavy load.



    The weights listed by APS for the Spyderline is so close to the Vectrus 12 that any difference wouldn't be noticed. The AS-78 is listed as much lighter than the Vectrus 12 for those for which weights are listed - so I assume the 1/8" is much lighter also.



    I haven't noticed any creep - but I haven't done any measurements either. From my observations I haven't seen any water absorption by the double or single braid spectra lines that I have. The water runs off and doesn't hold in the weave.



    Yeah that stuff is very interesting - the creep has been stretched out already. If they had it in 1/8" I'd buy about 50' to experiment with.

    Also, the Paraloc stuff is interesting, but the ratings are kind of low for dyneema.

  9. #29
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    what are you putting such heavy loads on the pruissiks for?, i just use them to tighten my tarps riggeline just like a hh. and the mason's line is about equal in strength to a mammut accessory cord i bought that was rated to about 125 lbs.
    Prussiks have a lot of uses such as ascending a rope - as such each one has to hold your weight plus whatever gear you are carrying. For use around camp they can be used for a lot more than securing shock cords to the hammock suspension. One use is for pulling a rope over an overhead. Pulling the rope with your bare hands can be painful and cause injury for a heavy load. Use 2 Prussik loops and then use a Larks head to secure good sized sticks, say 1/4" to 1/2" diameter and a little longer than the width of your hand, to the Prussik loops. The sticks work as handles to pull the rope. By alternately pulling and moving the loops you can pull very heavy loads with no damage to your hands.

    Prussik loops are really very useful.

  10. #30
    Dutch's Avatar
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    any knott even a larks head aka girth hitch reduces the tensile strength by around 50%. so the listed tensile strength was probably about right. if you do a search, you can find lots of cool info about the breaking strengths of webbing and cord made with different types of fiber and which knots reduce the tensile strength by what percent
    I did as Hammock Engineer suggested and wrapped the rope around itself many times to eliminate the knot from the equation. It still broke lifting 650 pounds. Didn't even get it off the ground. My main beef isn't the rope though, they don't make the rope. It is the complete and utter lack of customer service. Every time I sent them an e-mail they wouldn't respond until I contacted them again. I've seen other post about small specialized suppliers that just have no customer service. I guess if you want something done right anymore you have to get it done in China.

    Peace Dutch

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