Becket Hitch Suspension; Idea and Questions

[mophead]

Don't want to derail this great discussion because progress is being made in the ultralight movement. However, a hammock stand is a cheap and wise investment as you probably know sir.

If I could have your input, I know you have been using mule tape for quite some time. Would you say that muletape with the beckett hitch is reliable? I'm looking to connect the gap between my straps and my cl's. Don't have time to make my own so I was going to go with AGG's premade mule tape straps. I also don't want to go back to whoopies or hardware.

This cord to cord idea looks promising, and will soon show itself worthy or not. However, as of right now, I cannot trust such a system to get me through a few days in the woods.

I love the fact.. that as we the hammock community tries to get lighter. Things become simpler and cheaper. Amsteel and some knowledge on knots is all we really ever needed huh?

Sorry.... dutch!

Dutch might still hang with us weight wise. His last speed hooks were what 2g? If you factor in line required to tie a knot and if you use a toggle (usually around 1g)... how much more could a speed hook weigh?

Its probably going to come down to ease of use. I'm not sure if a knot with no toggle that does not slip and comes out with no effort is possible. Dutch is clever and some people are willing to take on fractions of a gram for ease of use.

I agree with you about whoopies and hardware in general though. I like to keep things cheap and simple. I think a lot of people are looking for something to replace whoopie slings. They're cool and all but the novelty kind of wears off and the disadvantages become obvious after using them a while. I don't know if its am east coast thing or what but I know a lot of people that aren't crazy about them.

[readyme]

I just saw AGG is using 1/2" muletape tree straps. Is the 1/2" width generally accepted as good tree straps... ie, not damaging the tree?

I see even a few people are using thin cordage while protecting the tree with sticks tucked in. I suppose you could use Amsteel (or Dynaglide?) continuous loops and just Amsteel (or Dynaglide?) as the suspension itself, attaching with the slippery Becket bend.

[SGT Rock]

I just saw AGG is using 1/2" muletape tree straps. Is the 1/2" width generally accepted as good tree straps... ie, not damaging the tree?

Generally accepted? I don't think so. 1" has been the defacto standard for so long here most people think that there is some sort of government standard LOL. LNT says 1", but that is based on info they got from here back when that came up - their original standard was 2"-4" but that wasn't based on any research or data - just something they dreamed up. If you know anything about the LNT organization you quickly realize they don't know much more than anyone else, they have just made a business out of preaching what used to be called common sense.

In my experience hanging on the trees in my yard multiple times with 1/2" and using it on a variety of trees over the last couple of years 1/2" is fine. If you don't feel comfortable with it then don't do it. There are some members here that will get downright ugly with you if they hear you use 1/2" because you are going to ruin it for everyone else, but in 15 years of hammocking I've never seen one official ever measure my tree straps to determine what width I'm using.

I see even a few people are using thin cordage while protecting the tree with sticks tucked in. I suppose you could use Amsteel (or Dynaglide?) continuous loops and just Amsteel (or Dynaglide?) as the suspension itself, attaching with the slippery Becket bend.

That is where we are playing with this. After a lot of playing around, we seem to have reached a point where we've found you can get the knot to hold with an Amsteel line but not so much with dynaglide unless you toggle it. As for CL, I think you can use either, just know that Amsteel loops will probably outlast your hammock while dynaglide may need to be replaced every couple of years or so - just keep an eye on it.

Jamming sticks was the old way we would do it before about 2001 when tree straps came into fashion.

[SGT Rock]

Dutch might still hang with us weight wise. His last speed hooks were what 2g? If you factor in line required to tie a knot and if you use a toggle (usually around 1g)... how much more could a speed hook weigh?

Its probably going to come down to ease of use. I'm not sure if a knot with no toggle that does not slip and comes out with no effort is possible. Dutch is clever and some people are willing to take on fractions of a gram for ease of use.

I agree with you about whoopies and hardware in general though. I like to keep things cheap and simple. I think a lot of people are looking for something to replace whoopie slings. They're cool and all but the novelty kind of wears off and the disadvantages become obvious after using them a while. I don't know if its am east coast thing or what but I know a lot of people that aren't crazy about them.

I agree. I think if I had a speed hook that weighed about 2 grams and worked every time with dynaglide lines I would go with that. I already put a 1.2 gram grappler in my system which is not needed but nice to have.

[Theguywitheyebrows]

any reason your using 1/8 on the leader? It would make more sense to use less of that material on the continuous loop to save weight. Obviously a 7/64 leader with a 1/8 loop would be the lighter setup, maybe by only a couple grams.

Once again, any reason your doing one over the other?

I have two 7/64th's 8" loops on the my dutch hammock. I have two 4' Kevlar straps at the tree. I need a new suspension as I can't hang right now (suspensionless) and have a backpacking trip coming up. Either gonna get some mule tape for a typical becket hitch or try with AmSteel. However, because time is of the essence and I cannot test, I must go with a reliable solution.

I wish I could spend more time testing hammock gear, but as a full time engineer.... I don't really have the brain capacity to crunch more numbers at night. Or maybe that's just these Long Trail IPA's getting in the way.

My job will be letting up soon, and I have the wood to build my indoor hammock stand. This winter, I'll be hanging full time next to the wood stove. So in the evenings and at night, I'll be able to do some serious research and testing if anyone wants to throws ideas my way.

i happened to have some of that 1/8 amsteel left after my first pair of CLs and WSs, made a couple 'dog bones' for keychains or whatever, they became the leaders on my wall anchors in my room.https://www.hammockforums.net/galler...mageuser=53552
i don't do mattresses lol.

[readyme]

Thanks Sgt...great info.
Just quick info I came up with for my own knowledge...thought it was worth sharing.

Dynaglide 1000 lb limit 0.43g/ft
Mule Tape 1250 lb limit unknown
7/64 Amsteel 1600 lb limit 1.30g/ft
1/8 Amsteel 2500 lb limit 2.19g/ft
1" straps 1000 lb limit 7.00g/ft
kevlar straps 2000 lb limit 3.30g/ft

I think I am going to go with 7/64 CL, kevlar straps and 7/64 between them (Becket or toggle).

Generally accepted? I don't think so. 1" has been the defacto standard for so long here most people think that there is some sort of government standard LOL. LNT says 1", but that is based on info they got from here back when that came up - their original standard was 2"-4" but that wasn't based on any research or data - just something they dreamed up. If you know anything about the LNT organization you quickly realize they don't know much more than anyone else, they have just made a business out of preaching what used to be called common sense.

In my experience hanging on the trees in my yard multiple times with 1/2" and using it on a variety of trees over the last couple of years 1/2" is fine. If you don't feel comfortable with it then don't do it. There are some members here that will get downright ugly with you if they hear you use 1/2" because you are going to ruin it for everyone else, but in 15 years of hammocking I've never seen one official ever measure my tree straps to determine what width I'm using.

That is where we are playing with this. After a lot of playing around, we seem to have reached a point where we've found you can get the knot to hold with an Amsteel line but not so much with dynaglide unless you toggle it. As for CL, I think you can use either, just know that Amsteel loops will probably outlast your hammock while dynaglide may need to be replaced every couple of years or so - just keep an eye on it.

Jamming sticks was the old way we would do it before about 2001 when tree straps came into fashion.

[joe_guilbeau]

If you trust Dynaglide as a Hammock suspension, why not use it instead of Amsteel for the hammock Gathered/Channel ends as well, just extend the length.

On the tree strap side, tie a buntline and bury the tag end, now you can slip the Dynaglide Buntline Bury Loop tjru a loop created on one end of the tree strap with a Titanium Webbing Slide.Cinch it all up.

Eliminate the all the rest of the bells and whistles and use the tree straps for adjusting hammock sag. Use a slide to cinch the strap to the tree.

Now, I realize that this does not have the adjustments of Whoopies or UCR's, but for SOME folks, the tree density is such that this MIGHT be a solution worth considering.

https://www.alliedtitanium.com/produ...UPDCID=5887003

Item # 0020261:	Slide for webbing and strapping, 3/16 inch bar X 1 inch I.D. (Investment cast), Grade 2 (CP) Titanium with Polished Finish

I know how we all like Titanium, aluminum is lighter weight than titanium, by the way.

[GreatBigDave]

... I know how we all like Titanium, aluminum is lighter weight than titanium, by the way.

Aluminum is less dense than titanium, true. On the other hand Titanium is far stronger than aluminum for the same size / shape piece.

[SGT Rock]

If you trust Dynaglide as a Hammock suspension, why not use it instead of Amsteel for the hammock Gathered/Channel ends as well, just extend the length.

On the tree strap side, tie a buntline and bury the tag end, now you can slip the Dynaglide Buntline Bury Loop tjru a loop created on one end of the tree strap with a Titanium Webbing Slide.Cinch it all up.

Eliminate the all the rest of the bells and whistles and use the tree straps for adjusting hammock sag. Use a slide to cinch the strap to the tree.

Now, I realize that this does not have the adjustments of Whoopies or UCR's, but for SOME folks, the tree density is such that this MIGHT be a solution worth considering.

https://www.alliedtitanium.com/produ...UPDCID=5887003

Item # 0020261:	Slide for webbing and strapping, 3/16 inch bar X 1 inch I.D. (Investment cast), Grade 2 (CP) Titanium with Polished Finish

I know how we all like Titanium, aluminum is lighter weight than titanium, by the way.

I've used dynaglide as dogbone leaders and with this rig I am using Amsteel as I was hoping a little extra bite from the hammock end of the rig would help, so far it has not and I will probably switch back to some dynaglide for the hammock leaders.

[mophead]

I just saw AGG is using 1/2" muletape tree straps. Is the 1/2" width generally accepted as good tree straps... ie, not damaging the tree?

TL;DR answer: no its not but that doesn't mean it hurts the trees.

Long answer: This debate goes back a long way but no one really has any solid scientific evidence. There are so many variables its hat to give a blanket safe min. width to everybody. LNT use to say 2 inch min. But that was based on what land managers and parks told them. Those people weren't basing that off any science or experience either. Sgt rocks report of hanging on trees in his yard is the first long term evidence I've seen someone put forth around here for 1/2 straps.

I thought 1in (current LNT standard) was a good compromise, but still somewhat arbitrary. I had been told I couldn't hang once before and thought if it happened again I could counter with "hey this is LNT compliant!" But are they really going to care? Probably not.

Thanks Sgt...great info.
Just quick info I came up with for my own knowledge...thought it was worth sharing.

Dynaglide 1000 lb limit 0.43g/ft
Mule Tape 1250 lb limit unknown
7/64 Amsteel 1600 lb limit 1.30g/ft
1/8 Amsteel 2500 lb limit 2.19g/ft
1" straps 1000 lb limit 7.00g/ft
kevlar straps 2000 lb limit 3.30g/ft

I think I am going to go with 7/64 CL, kevlar straps and 7/64 between them (Becket or toggle).

I believe Dynaglide advertised lighter but it is actually 0.75g/ft. This was confirmed in another thread with multiple people weighing DG on their own scales. I get 7/64 Amsteel coming in around 1.5g/ft on my scale.