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  1. #91
    Senior Member XexorZ's Avatar
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    Re: Anchors

    These should work PERFECTLY - but what do they weigh?

    Another consideration is how heavy-duty is the driver you need to put them in the ground?

    My goal is to make the whole kit light enough to be practical for backpacking.

    These may be the solution if the driver requirements aren't too heavy-duty. I anticipate that a solid steel (or titanium) driver would be required.

    I may just break down and buy some............... but there is so much other gear I want first!!

    Re: Hockey Sticks - GREAT idea! Let us know about weight etc.

  2. #92
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XexorZ View Post
    ...

    My goal is to make the whole kit light enough to be practical for backpacking.
    ...

    Exactly

    That's why I have decided to stick with my 1/4"x16" TI driver and the 1/4"x1.5" fender washers with 1/8"x1" cotter pins and guy line cord. Simple and light - 2 oz for the driver and approximately 0.3 oz per anchor - less than 4 oz for driver and 6 anchors. The driver is the only "special" piece, everything else I can pick up at Lowes. The driver can be made in about 1 hour with a Dremel and one of those metal cutting discs.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  3. #93
    Senior Member salmonofdoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XexorZ View Post
    Re: Anchors

    Re: Hockey Sticks - GREAT idea! Let us know about weight etc.
    Composite shafts for hockey sticks weigh on average between 270g and 350g, or 9.5-12.5 oz. This will go up some once wooden end plugs are added, but base weight is on par with the collapsible walking staffs and less than a pair of trekking poles. Prices are about the same and often much less than hiking staffs and poles. I got a new composite shaft on clearance for $20 about a month ago and I'll post pics and results once I'm able to get everything up and running, but that might be a little while.
    A free canoe is better than no canoe.

  4. #94
    New Member jaygnar's Avatar
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    My thoughts:
    The use of a "tubular deadman" seems like it adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the design. I think that the flat setup was better for weight savings. For a driver that is cheap and lightweight maybe an aluminum gutter nail that was modified with a slot in the end to drive the anchor. Also i think if I were to prototype it I'd rip off Xexorz last design only flattened and put a notch in the end that the driver is slid onto so that the two pieces "lock" together for sturdier driving. Also, I'd use two holes in the "center" of the anchor to allow the anchor cable to be threaded through the anchor to eliminate welds and save weight. I'll attach a VERY rough sketch.
    The possible shortcomings that I foresee with this design are that I'm not sure if a gutter nail will get the anchor deep enough to be effective. Also there will be the issue of wear on the cable that will result from being driven into the earth.
    Just my thoughts, tryin to help. Disregard if i'm missing something obvious.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #95
    Senior Member XexorZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaygnar View Post
    My thoughts:
    The use of a "tubular deadman" seems like it adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the design. I think that the flat setup was better for weight savings. For a driver that is cheap and lightweight maybe an aluminum gutter nail that was modified with a slot in the end to drive the anchor. Also i think if I were to prototype it I'd rip off Xexorz last design only flattened and put a notch in the end that the driver is slid onto so that the two pieces "lock" together for sturdier driving. Also, I'd use two holes in the "center" of the anchor to allow the anchor cable to be threaded through the anchor to eliminate welds and save weight. I'll attach a VERY rough sketch.
    The possible shortcomings that I foresee with this design are that I'm not sure if a gutter nail will get the anchor deep enough to be effective. Also there will be the issue of wear on the cable that will result from being driven into the earth.
    Just my thoughts, tryin to help. Disregard if i'm missing something obvious.
    Hi Jaygnar,

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Below are some comments on some of the ideas you have that I already tried (or approximated)

    1) Gutter nail - As you have already surmised, gutter nails are < 10" long (I think around 7" or so if I recall?) - a anchor this deep won't hold very much force. The break force seems to have a square proportionality or higher with respect to the depth - so, 24" deep anchor is 4X or more strongly held than 12" and so on.

    2) "Two hole" method of attaching the cable - I've tried this and a variation of it. I also used 1 hole and a stopper on the cable inside the anchor. The problem with these designs is that it does not allow enough of a leverage arm length away from the center of rotation - that is, when you pull on the cable, the anchor has a tendency to just "come straight up" instead of being levered around into a horizontal orientation. The result is many inches of depth lost while pulling to set the anchor or complete (and unwanted) retrieval when trying to set the anchor.

    3) Cable wear and tear - I found that cable wear can be an issue, especially with the single-hole method (cable comes straight out of the tube). This is because the cable is forced at a right angle to the earth and gets pretty bent on the way in. Then when you set the anchor (if it sets) it is forced straight again. This repeated bending fatigues the cable in that area. Not good. The two hole method has less wear as the cable tends to rotate a bit but then the effective length of the lever arm is even smaller - no good. Using a welded on (or otherwise) lever arm (a nut in my prototype) allows for the cable to freely rotate and avoid the bulk of exposure to the ground as well as provides an adequate lever arm allowing high rates of successful sets (in fact, I never had this particular design fail to set - there is always a first).


    With that said, it sounds like you have a great deal of interest in this type of project which is great! Fiddling about with things like this is a hobby of mine. Dangerous things happen when groups of us get together Get out there and try to implement this (or your next) design. Eventually, one of us tinkerers will figure this one out (that is, "Light weight, strong, reusable").

    I've rambled long enough

    Be well,

    Xex

  6. #96
    Senior Member Trugracie's Avatar
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    I had the same problem with the washers pulling straight out.
    I solved the problem by bending the washer, so when it pulls, the little lip catches dirt immediately.
    Don't let up until you hear cartilage snap, or they crap in their pants. Sal Bandini

  7. #97
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trugracie View Post
    I had the same problem with the washers pulling straight out.
    I solved the problem by bending the washer, so when it pulls, the little lip catches dirt immediately.
    I LOVE it.

    A simple solution to the problem.

    I've been going round and round and round with all kinds of complex solutions with multiple ropes, etc.

    Al I had to do was go back to my primary design principle: KISS.

    Thanks.

    So since you have experience a question or 2:

    1. where do you bend , across the center or near an edge?
    2. do you have a large angle bend. I'm imagining a small angle.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  8. #98
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trugracie View Post
    I solved the problem by bending the washer...
    That is brilliant!

    Can you provide a picture?

    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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  9. #99
    Senior Member Trugracie's Avatar
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    Will post one as soon as I make some.
    Simply put the washer in a vice right where the inner circle is, and whack it a few times with a hammer. I had to play with it for a little, but finally got them right.
    The only problem I have, is I could almost never get them out.

    BTW
    If you're still having problems setting the anchor, simply pull your driver up bout an inch or till you think it clears the washer, turn 90 degrees, and pull on the rope, that helps turn the washer. After that, pull the driver out and stomp the hole a few times. It usually helps pack everything down.
    Last edited by Trugracie; 11-19-2009 at 03:18.
    Don't let up until you hear cartilage snap, or they crap in their pants. Sal Bandini

  10. #100
    opie's Avatar
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    I had an idea if your using a toggle as your anchor... Maybe its been brought up

    Instead of threading your cable through the center of the toggle.. offset it a little to one side. See if that eliminates a failed lock.
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