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  1. #11
    Senior Member mophead's Avatar
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    Did some more searching today while racking my brain over a lightweight option which holds knots. Found two products.

    First of which is Lightning Rope in 7/64 at 2g a foot and holds 1400lbs.. Appears to be a similar wieght and bulk as spyderline, spyderline may be slightly lighter.

    Second idea is 7/64 vectran which is 12 strand. I am mulling over the idea of ordering some, pulling the braid apart, and then doing an 8-strand or 6-strand round braid of the line. It holds 2000lbs and weighs about 2.5g per foot. I'm figuring a 25% reduction of strands would give ~1500lbs strength at ~1.8g/ft. 50% reduction of strands perhaps 1000lbs at 1.25g/foot. Alot of assumptions here though as the strength to strand relationship is quite possibly not linear.

    Unfortunately I have not been able to find any 7/64 dia. of either product in anything but large spools so far.

  2. #12
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    But we digress.

    I'd like to focus on a no-knot option that outperforms WSs and UCRs. Not dissing knots. I love them. And any advances in knowledge about better material and ways to use them can't be anything but good. Just curious how far the other option can go in terms of getting the job done with less weight and less bulk.

  3. #13
    Senior Member mophead's Avatar
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    Ah, my apologies. Well, if we are avoiding knots, we are left with two ways of attaching things together: hardware, spliced line. In terms of spliced line you will always be limited to a certain number of fids distance of line. I have never experienced the slipping fraying or breaking when using spliced line. I think in terms of weight you will probably win out with a dynaglide UCR or maybe even amsteel compared to hardware weight wise. But you are still left with the minimum bury length issue.

    The more I think about a dyneema strap I am wondering how well that would work out with a piece of hardware. Hardware is essentially replacing knots and operating on friction/compression. At least all the examples that come to mind at the moment do. If the strap was made from a fiber that is too slippery to hold knots how well would it hold in a buckle? If it did hold would the compression be an issue? Polyester and kevlar are a higher friction fiber- much better at knots, and I would assume hardware than dyneema. This is all just supposition btw.

  4. #14
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    I know even a narrow strap would be a bit bulkier and heavier than 7/64" single/hollow braid but I'm wondering if it might provide enough surface area to hold well. A lot of folks really like to be able to use hardware for adjusting. I know nothing about the various coatings that manufacturers are applying to Dyneema/Spectra when making rope and cordage. Don't know if it adds or reduces friction.

    As far as compression goes, hollow braid gets flattened in hitches, bends, and other knots and I suspect that's where the problem lies as the fibers going around the edge get kinked.

    My thoughts are mostly WAGs, not even suppositions based on real experience.

  5. #15
    Senior Member mophead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TominMN View Post
    As far as compression goes, hollow braid gets flattened in hitches, bends, and other knots and I suspect that's where the problem lies as the fibers going around the edge get kinked.
    Right, what I am thinking is if you had a hollow braid or strap in hardware it will also get flattened bent or twisted. So the material you are using might need to withstand it. Dyneema doesn't normally fit that bill. How much of an issue it woul be on a thin strap I don't know because I don't think it exists yet.

    Some coatings are to prevent abrasion and I think zing it has one to increase friction so it can be knotted.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mophead View Post
    Right, what I am thinking is if you had a hollow braid or strap in hardware it will also get flattened bent or twisted. So the material you are using might need to withstand it. Dyneema doesn't normally fit that bill. How much of an issue it woul be on a thin strap I don't know because I don't think it exists yet.

    Some coatings are to prevent abrasion and I think zing it has one to increase friction so it can be knotted.
    Typically, I believe, most webbing has the strength-providing fibers running longitudinally. Even most tubular webbing is not diamond-braided. I'm not convinced that pinching, unless it's absolutely, incredibly extreme, does all that much to weaken the fiber. It's that kink at the edge of flattened diamond-weave that I'm guessing is problematic. That's why I have hopes for webbing and hardware over hollow braided cordage. Dyneema/Spectra just might possibly be a candidate. If not, I guess my ideas won't work until the next miracle fiber comes along.

  7. #17
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    I was working on Amstel suspension--continuous loop larks head on end of hammock and the other end of the same continuous loop is prusik around Amstel lead coming from tree strap. 5 wrap prusik held with 1/8 Amstel but was tough to loosen so there was no fast adjustability No Ease of Use. Maybe spider line would work with prusik. It's a knot(or hitch) but you only tie it one time and you are done--just slide to adjust. I might try it with spider line or other rope.

  8. #18
    Senior Member mophead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Grappler View Post
    I was working on Amstel suspension--continuous loop larks head on end of hammock and the other end of the same continuous loop is prusik around Amstel lead coming from tree strap. 5 wrap prusik held with 1/8 Amstel but was tough to loosen so there was no fast adjustability No Ease of Use. Maybe spider line would work with prusik. It's a knot(or hitch) but you only tie it one time and you are done--just slide to adjust. I might try it with spider line or other rope.
    Would a klemheist not lock up as easily as a prusik? I think the locking up has more to do with the diameters of the line. It's preferable to have a smaller dia rope wrapped around a larger rope.

  9. #19
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    Mophead Yes a klemheist might be better. We might be on our way to a better suspension. A suspension that may have some of these specs: ease of use , cheap, durable, fast, simple, no knots, no hardware, and no splicing. Well we might not get all those specs on the various suspensions we make----I believe we are onto something with new or new to us ropes.

  10. #20
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    Oh and light weight too

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