WinterTarp, hammock and peapod questions

[gaidal]

Thank you BillyBob, that's very clear, both words and pictures.
It looks like you don't tie the peapod above the knots on both sides? I made a vow yesterday night to always make it at least that tight, as I said I had 10 cm between the occupied hammock and the pod (and it was cold). Of course it differs for everyone.

I agree regarding hanging the peapod loosely. I don't even have it touching the bottom of the hammock and have never felt cold underneath. I think it's because, unlike underquilts, the pod is fully sealed so there's no air leaks.

Except you aren't supposed to fully seal it, right? Do you both do that regularly? With my humble experience I think it's kind of suffocating to have it fully sealed, and with a hole big enough for fresh air to get in, it will also reach the space under your back... well, assuming that 10 cm gap anyway. Maybe it's not that bad. Hm.
I'm thinking about that mosquito hammock BillyBob suggested, that gives a warmer fit with the PeaPod, right? Although I'm not going to try it just yet.

[Wentworth]

If it's really cold, I seal it right up. No problem with condensation, and when it's that cold, I don't mind it being snug! I'll take warm anyday

[BillyBob58]

Thank you BillyBob, that's very clear, both words and pictures.
It looks like you don't tie the peapod above the knots on both sides?

MMMM.. Not sure what you are referring to? The final step I take, on both ends, is to loop the cord over the end knots and tie a shoe lace knot, then an overhand( ? ) knot connecting the two shoelace loops for a little extra hold. This is on both ends of the hammock.

I made a vow yesterday night to always make it at least that tight, as I said I had 10 cm between the occupied hammock and the pod (and it was cold). Of course it differs for everyone.

Just to make sure I am being clear, there should be as little gap as possible- or zero gap- between you and the pod when the hammock is occupied. As tight as possible without reaching the point of compressing the loft. Which in my experience, will be when the pod is just about to come into contact with the hammock and my back. I think if there were 10 cm (4"?) between my back and the pod, it would probably be cold. The gap I am saying is needed refers to the gap between the unoccupied hammock and the pod. For me several or more inches of gap are required, YMMV. If I have as much as 4 to 6" gap unoccupied, once I get in the Speer hammock will sag right down and contact the pod, or close. But I weigh 208 lbs, and different weights might make for significant differences in how much gap you should start with. Plus, sag varies with hammock and how tight the hammock is hung to start with.

Except you aren't supposed to fully seal it, right? Do you both do that regularly? With my humble experience I think it's kind of suffocating to have it fully sealed, and with a hole big enough for fresh air to get in, it will also reach the space under your back... well, assuming that 10 cm gap anyway. Maybe it's not that bad. Hm.
I'm thinking about that mosquito hammock BillyBob suggested, that gives a warmer fit with the PeaPod, right? Although I'm not going to try it just yet.

It only costs about $40 shipped(Claytor No Net) so it is a cheap experiment.

I usually don't seal it all the way near my face. I don't usually need to. But if you are cold, fully sealing it will make a big difference. So it might be better than shivering. If a persons claustrophobia will allow it. Also, the wider Speer usually holds it a couple of inches or more above my face anyway. In addition, the area around the Velcro is usually pretty thin, I can usually see right through it. So I think even fully sealed there is at least a little air and vapor transfer. For some reason I have never noticed any loft loss when doing this. But it is really amazing what a huge difference this can make if you find yourself with inadequate top insulation, or in temps colder than expected or colder than the pod rating. It's like the worlds best sleeping bag hood. IF you can stand being closed in. And I know at least one person who couldn't even consider it, so.....

[BillyBob58]

With my humble experience I think it's kind of suffocating to have it fully sealed, and with a hole big enough for fresh air to get in, it will also reach the space under your back... well, assuming that 10 cm gap anyway. .........

PS: I didn't answer this. Even if you have a good sized breathing hole, the pod will be drapped over the edges of the hammock on both sides, unless you have it flung wide open top to bottom in summer time mode. Inside the hammock, your body and probably even a light top quilt and or clothing should pretty well block cold air from being able to sink straight down through the hammock getting underneath you.

Now a large gap under your back is going to be colder than no gap. You just have a larger area that your body must heat up. And there might even be some cold air that manages to sink dinto that gap. But, I have just always had the impression that an inadvertent gap beneath is not nearly as damaging as it is with a non pod approach. Any other under insulation I have tried, I can not tolerate any gap at all at, for example, 50*F or below. 40* and forget it. But if I get in the Pea Pod and it is say 35*F, and I realize it is hung too loose and I have say a 1"(2.54 cm) gap, I probably will be able to ignore it. I'll still be warm enough, most likely.

[gaidal]

It looks like you don't tie the peapod above the knots on both sides?

MMMM.. Not sure what you are referring to? The final step I take, on both ends, is to loop the cord over the end knots and tie a shoe lace knot, then an overhand( ? ) knot connecting the two shoelace loops for a little extra hold. This is on both ends of the hammock.

"Above the knots" = higher than the hammock knot = where the hammock is gathered and where the webbing takes over. On my first, successful night I fixed the peapod on the webbing, above those knots, on both sides. In your pictures, the first one for instance, it seems to be a bit lower as you can see the hammock fabric coming out from the peapod...
Does that makes sense?

About cold air getting in, I agree that it can't get down there freely, but every time I move it should pump some cold air down assuming there is breathing hole, so yeah I'd like to keep that gap as small as possible or there will be much more to heat.
Like you said, too.

Thanks for the advice, can't wait to try again soon.

[BillyBob58]

"Above the knots" = higher than the hammock knot = where the hammock is gathered and where the webbing takes over. On my first, successful night I fixed the peapod on the webbing, above those knots, on both sides. In your pictures, the first one for instance, it seems to be a bit lower as you can see the hammock fabric coming out from the peapod...
Does that makes sense?

Yes, it makes perfect sense and now I see where the confusion is coming from. Those pictures are a series of steps. So in the first picture or two, I am just showing how I first wrap the cord around the hammock and cinch it down, twice, in order to help keep the pod closed on the ends. But then, in the final steps- as you will see in pic#4 I think, I take the remaining cord and tie it up over the hammock knots as you describe above. I don't think it would stay put at all if I didn't do that. So yes, I tie "above the knots", after I have first wrapped the cord around the hammock and cinched it down.

About cold air getting in, I agree that it can't get down there freely, but every time I move it should pump some cold air down assuming there is breathing hole, so yeah I'd like to keep that gap as small as possible or there will be much more to heat.
Like you said, too.

Thanks for the advice, can't wait to try again soon.

Right, it will for sure pump air into the hammock through any breathing hole. And depending on temp of course, and the size of the hole, you probably will be colder than you should be based on the thickness of the pods top layer. In fact, even if you don't move, warm air will rise and drift out of the hole, and cold air will sink through the hole and lay on top of your body. Making you cold on top. Depending on the size of the hole, and depending on if you are using a light top quilt, or clothing to block the warm air below your chin from drifting out the hole.

But here is a possible significant difference with some under quilts vs a Pea Pod: a loose Pea Pod will still drape over the hammock edges, blocking cold air from sinking down into the space under your body by that route, from both sides along the full length of the hammock, and even pretty much on the ends. Though there still might be some that manages to come into the breathing hole, get past your body and/or top quilt/sleeping bag, and get between your body side and the hammock side to get underneath you, it will be minimal. Minimal compared to a regular UQ or HH Supershelter hung too loosely. Which may leave a gap/space between the side of the quilt/SS and the side of the hammock and your body, and on the ends also. So even if you are bundled up in a mummy bag in the hammock, and warm as toast on top, that cold air can go right down the side into the space under neath you and major cold butt syndrome(CBS) results quickly. Even though you might be warm enough on top.

Here is an example from real life. I can be warm as toast in my Warbonnet torso UQ, with it pulled snug- even tight- against my back. It is an excellent design. But if it slips up a few inches above my shoulder( by accident, or on purpose to vent in warm weather) I won't last long in cold weather. When this happens, a gap opens up, small or large depending on how far I move it. With the small adjustment, cold air can rush into that gap, and I can go from toasty warm to uncomfortably cold on my back in a matter of minutes. If it is very cold, say below 30F, even a small gap is way too much! In my Pea Pod, even if I have a good sized breathing hole on top, I am not likely to even notice a small gap beneath me at 30F. Even though, it will no doubt be warmer with little or no gap, as long as it is not TOO tight.

I think this explains why I have not read about any body having a cold back with a Pea Pod at or above it's rated temp. I'm sure some cold sleeper has, I just have not read about it yet. Where as before the days of "snug" fitting UQs, it seemed fairly common for folks to be colder than expected. There was a learning curve, apparently. A little gap, and they were cold. Tight enough for no gap, but just a little too tight, and they would loose loft and be cold. You can do that latter with the Pea Pod also for sure, sense it is not a snug fit design. But I just think you are far more likely to get away with a gap of 1/2" or more without CBS. Due to the "sealed" edges. Just my theory, I might be wrong.

Oh well, enough of my unproven theories. Keep us posted on how it works for you!