On Hammocks and Patents.

**Frolicking Dino** · 05-22-2007, 21:16

Tom has already done something stupid.... it remains to be seen if he will continue a pattern of behavior that has lost three customers (the two Christian mentioned and the one I mentioned) since Trail Days or will start to innovate so his hammocks can compete with the newer models.

BTW, Brandon (Warbonnet), thanks for all the time you spent with me at trail days. I'm the older lady with a bad leg that tried out your hammock on Sunday.

**Anderz** · 05-22-2007, 22:09

Hi. I don't think anyone would be able to patent a design which has already been posted on the web and used by many, for instance to manufacture their own kit. I'm certainly no lawyer (engineer...) but I can't help getting interested in the legal side of it. A couple of citations from Wikipedia (yes, I know it's got its flaws ...):

"The patent laws usually require that, in order for an invention to be patentable, it must (...) be novel (i.e. at least some aspect of it must be new) (...)" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patentability)

Specifically in the US, "Section 101 of Title 35 U.S.C. sets out the subject matter that can be patented: Whoever invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof, may obtain a patent therefor, subject to the conditions and requirements of this title." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patentable_subject_matter)

So, to be able to get a patent the subject has to be a novelty. Another reaction to the whole thing is to post as much as possible here publicly so that no-one can patent it

**Just Jeff** · 05-22-2007, 23:02

I think the law says that after someone publicly displays an idea, for example on the internet, they have one year to patent it. After that, it's fair game for someone else to patent it. But I'm not a lawyer...

**Preacha Man** · 05-22-2007, 23:03

None of this makes much sense to me, I make all my hammocks for around $10, and it takes my wife around 15 minutes to sew them. How can you patent that? I never even knew that a hammock/hammock manufacturer had a patent until today, to patent something so easy to make is just nonsense to me.

**Just Jeff** · 05-22-2007, 23:05

Well, Tom did have some pretty significant contributions when he created his system. He deserves credit (and profit) for the work he put in to designing his product. I think most folks are disagreeing with where the line is that his patent ends and legal innovations from others begins.

**attroll** · 05-22-2007, 23:15

Originally Posted by Frolicking Dino

Tom has already done something stupid.... it remains to be seen if he will continue a pattern of behavior that has lost three customers (the two Christian mentioned and the one I mentioned) since Trail Days or will start to innovate so his hammocks can compete with the newer models.

He has lost more then just those two. I use to recommend the HH to everyone I knew but after what he did to me at TD and not replacing my hammock for a defect from the factory I will never recommend a HH to anyone again. How can he say it was not a defect in the hammock when it was sewn wrong from the factory.

**ShakeyLeggs** · 05-22-2007, 23:41

I got this off of Tom's site. He should have replaced Attroll's hammock at no charge to him. Emphasis added by me.

Our hammocks are guaranteed for defects in materials and workmanship for one year. Damage due to wear and tear can be repaired for a reasonable charge. Please contact us at 1 888 539 2930 or by email to discuss warranty and/or repairs before shipping. We will then email or fax you a repair form. When we receive your hammock, we'll inspect it and contact you if there are any questions.

**attroll** · 05-23-2007, 00:41

Originally Posted by ShakeyLeggs

I got this off of Tom's site. He should have replaced Attroll's hammock at no charge to him. Emphasis added by me.

Our hammocks are guaranteed for defects in materials and workmanship for one year. Damage due to wear and tear can be repaired for a reasonable charge. Please contact us at 1 888 539 2930 or by email to discuss warranty and/or repairs before shipping. We will then email or fax you a repair form. When we receive your hammock, we'll inspect it and contact you if there are any questions.

I think his excuse was that I had the hammock more then a year, now that I think of it. I told him I had it for 1 1/2 years. Still it was not my fault it was sewn wrong and he even admitted that they sent some out sewn wrong. I am very unhappy with his decision on this.

**ShakeyLeggs** · 05-23-2007, 00:45

Originally Posted by attroll

I think his excuse was that I had the hammock more then a year, now that I think of it. I told him I had it for 1 1/2 years. Still it was not my fault it was sewn wrong and he even admitted that they sent some out sewn wrong. I am very unhappy with his decision on this.

I don't blame you one bit. He admitted to knowing he had a manufacturing problem and could have handled it by replacing it for free.

**Anderz** · 05-23-2007, 04:08

Originally Posted by Just Jeff

I think the law says that after someone publicly displays an idea, for example on the internet, they have one year to patent it. After that, it's fair game for someone else to patent it. But I'm not a lawyer...

There is something called grace period, which means that the inventor has for instance 1 year (in the USA) to file the patent, from the date when the design was first made public. The intent is to try to help small companies use revenue generated by the invention (sales of products for instance) to pay for the patent itself.

And no, I don't think it's fair game for anyone to go looking for unpatented ideas and file patents... But I'm no lawyer either, just wanted to add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

Anyway, regardless of what the law says, the customer is king and it doesn't matter how many patents the manufacturer has if the customer doesn't want to buy the product.