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  1. #11
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Those True north boots are terrific ..... in my near future!!!!!!
    Wonderful research beep....
    One thing .... on pulks, shorter poles and pulk in the woods due to turns on the trail and longer pulk and poles on the flats ....... what flats!
    Excellent stuff and got me wishing for Deep Winter.
    Shug
    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Good in the Backwood Hood.

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  2. #12
    Senior Member animalcontrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beep View Post
    1. Tubbs snowshoes (the “Mountaineer” kind (9"x30”) made of aluminum and with a rubberized fabric decking and serious metal crampons underneath). I still remember my shock the first time I stepped off the trail with those in northern Minnesota and immediately went crotch-deep in the snow! So much for flotation, eh?
    Imagine where you would have ended up (and how to get out) without your snowshoes?
    Quote Originally Posted by beep View Post
    4. Down Parka – "Baltoro" parka by North Face, an eBay special purchase at a great price. This is actually too warm for any active use even in Minnesota, but finds its value in what to wear when NOT active.
    I use a similar down parka and yes, strictly camp wear...been stationary in it at -10*F and "comfortable"
    Quote Originally Posted by beep View Post
    Additional “new” things to keep on hand for addressing very low temperatures combined with wind include a neoprene face mask and ski goggles.
    Great idea...goggles might be helpful for us eyeglass wearers...thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by beep View Post
    -More fuel bottles. I’ll need to carry enough fuel for cooking and melting snow. The “large” MSR bottle carries about 1 liter each (33 oz bottle with 30 oz of fuel). I’m guessing one per day but that’s to be determined.
    store with care so you don't spill fuel (you don't want to know how I know this one...white gas evaporates fast at 5*F!! but your clothes still stink)
    Quote Originally Posted by beep View Post
    f. I’m thinking I’ll get a legal sized clipboard and use it as a cooking platform for the MSR Dragonfly stove. It’s big enough for the stove and the fuel bottle.
    I use an old license plate cut in half...works well for alky stoves too

    other ideas...
    -I've used a Steripen for purified water down to 5*F (of course, requires an open source of water) Lithium batteries and store the steripen inside your jacket or pants pocket. Saved tons of fuel weight (we were snowshoe backpacking (no pulks, my pack weight was 35 lbs fuel/water/food for 3 days) in the UP of Michigan last winter (hi 15*/low 4* 12" of snow while we were out)...the steripen worked like a champ! Of course, back-up plan required.
    -I'm a big fan of insulated softshell ski pants...insulated, waterproof, built in snow gaiters. Many options here
    -In these conditions, I will never go solo. Too many variables and the buddy system can save your life. HYOH
    Love me a good sub zero camping trip...try to find one every year, even if I have to drive from Indiana to Northern Michigan! My record is -18*F (still on the ground) 16 yrs ago. It was the coldest night ever recorded in Indiana...WhoooBuddy!
    "Every day is a new day to a better future"
    "Of all the things that matter, that really and truly matter, working more efficiently and getting more done is not among them." ~ Mike Dooley
    "What if I told you that you couldn't have anymore of anything... No more friends, no more money, no more anything, until you first got happy with what you have?"~ Mike Dooley
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." ~ Socrates

  3. #13
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    Wow, Beep!
    Great posting and lots to think about. Have followed quite a few of your links already. I think I will have to start small with this winter camping, like backyard small, but having grown up in Wisconsin, it is time to move my camping into the 4th season.
    Thanks very much for this post.

    Thinking wintery thoughts.
    Last edited by BER; 11-03-2009 at 12:42.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Doctari's Avatar
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    Great post!

    I find it amazing how many experienced Groundlings avoid winter until they start swinging from the trees. I include me in with that group, & yet I still find it odd. Especially as "conventional wisdom" says that Hammocks are Way Colder than sleeping on the ground.

    For me, hiking season was OVER once the last leaf hit the ground. Time to pack it all away & dream of better days next summer. Hiking season started in spring, well after I was sure there was to be no more snow or temps below about 38!

    NOW:
    I can't wait till the first snow, and the deeper the better. I even own a Pulk sled now.
    Cold? BRING IT ON!!
    Coldest groundling temp: 34 due to poor timing of the hike, I "Froze to death". Coldest Hanger Temp 6, & I was upset it didn't get below zero.

    Although I would like to point out that at no time during my groundling years was I ever totally surrounded by snowmen poised to attack. But that's another story.
    When you have a backpack on, no matter where you are, you’re home.
    PAIN is INEVITABLE. MISERY is OPTIONAL.

  5. #15
    Senior Member moski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctari View Post
    Great post!

    I find it amazing how many experienced Groundlings avoid winter until they start swinging from the trees. I include me in with that group, & yet I still find it odd. Especially as "conventional wisdom" says that Hammocks are Way Colder than sleeping on the ground.

    For me, hiking season was OVER once the last leaf hit the ground. Time to pack it all away & dream of better days next summer. Hiking season started in spring, well after I was sure there was to be no more snow or temps below about 38!

    NOW:
    I can't wait till the first snow, and the deeper the better. I even own a Pulk sled now.
    Cold? BRING IT ON!!
    Coldest groundling temp: 34 due to poor timing of the hike, I "Froze to death". Coldest Hanger Temp 6, & I was upset it didn't get below zero.

    Although I would like to point out that at no time during my groundling years was I ever totally surrounded by snowmen poised to attack. But that's another story.
    So true...
    Same here.
    Never thought about it before
    Cool, thoughts.
    Now i must ponder
    Moski, who no longer feels the Secret Ninja Ski emptiness..............
    B/C he got them now

  6. #16
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    Following some of the links and searching for some more on the Empire True North Boots, I came across a link to a winter trekking forum where Kevin Kinney answered questions about the boots. Other good winter trekking info on the site:

    http://wintertrekking.com/index.php

  7. #17
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    I'm sorry folks but hanging in subzero cold just doesn't appeal to me, I just don't see the purpose because snow covered ground is a lot softer than rocks typically. If the ground is snow-covered, you can drag a pulk, if you can drag pulk, you can bring a big, thick foam pad/thermarest etc. Not only that, you can bring one of those UL tipis like that in the Ti Goat link in the original post, IT HAS A TITANIUM STOVE! What's not to like? I'll trade a hammock for a highly wind-resistant conical shelter/woodstove set up any day below zero.

    When it gets below zero, unless I have some vertical ice that needs scaling, a pair of "Mickey Mouse" boots is the only thing that will be on my feet. They kept my feet from freezing at minus 54 in JAN 77 on operation Jack Frost in AK.

    http://store.colemans.com/cart/extre...ued-p-751.html

  8. #18
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take-a-knee View Post
    I'm sorry folks but hanging in subzero cold just doesn't appeal to me, I just don't see the purpose because snow covered ground is a lot softer than rocks typically. If the ground is snow-covered, you can drag a pulk, if you can drag pulk, you can bring a big, thick foam pad/thermarest etc. Not only that, you can bring one of those UL tipis like that in the Ti Goat link in the original post, IT HAS A TITANIUM STOVE! What's not to like? I'll trade a hammock for a highly wind-resistant conical shelter/woodstove set up any day below zero.

    When it gets below zero, unless I have some vertical ice that needs scaling, a pair of "Mickey Mouse" boots is the only thing that will be on my feet. They kept my feet from freezing at minus 54 in JAN 77 on operation Jack Frost in AK.

    http://store.colemans.com/cart/extre...ued-p-751.html
    Ahhhh Man ..... your bringing me down!!!!
    Stove is good but I am lazy.
    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Good in the Backwood Hood.

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  9. #19
    Senior Member KerMegan's Avatar
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    I am wondering why you need to carry so much fuel for winter water/ice/snow melting if you are also carrying a big saw and a full sized axe? Though I do not see a setup or device to burn wood you appear to be preparing to gather quite a lot and to reduce it to manageable sized pieces. perhaps something like the Guide/Group gassification stove (from another thread) would serve you well, and reduce the need for white gas to be carried in huge quantity. Just pondering though- I really dislike more than a day or two of snow....probably lack of preparedness required here in the Lone star State.
    Still, it Sounds like you are on top of the planning curve! have a great time learning.
    KM

  10. #20
    beep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerMegan View Post
    I am wondering why you need to carry so much fuel for winter water/ice/snow melting if you are also carrying a big saw and a full sized axe? Though I do not see a setup or device to burn wood you appear to be preparing to gather quite a lot and to reduce it to manageable sized pieces. perhaps something like the Guide/Group gassification stove (from another thread) would serve you well, and reduce the need for white gas to be carried in huge quantity. Just pondering though- I really dislike more than a day or two of snow....probably lack of preparedness required here in the Lone star State.
    Still, it Sounds like you are on top of the planning curve! have a great time learning.
    KM
    Ah yes, gas vs wood for cooking and snowmelting. I'll probably stick with gas at least for now...since using wood for that purpose requires more site preparation and wood-gathering. Also, I don't (yet) own a nifty wood-powered stove set up.
    "The more I carry the happier I am in camp; the less I carry the happier I am getting there" - Sgt. Rock

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