Great article on BPL on Xenon Sil

[Dutch]

Someone linked me to this article and they did some testing on the Xenon Sil The HH pressure came in well above 2000mm which is pretty darn great. I'm still not quite content with it and will have improvements for my next order. One thing I wish was tested was the low stretch of the Xenon that make is excellent for tarp.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...read_id=107266

[mychal]

You're overly conservative. YOLO, dude! Buy a jet ski.

[doogie]

I can't wait to try out the new tarp.

[dangerous]

I can't wait to try out the new tarp.

GREAT looking tarp! does that have doors on both ends?

[doogie]

GREAT looking tarp! does that have doors on both ends?

Yes, here's a photo from inside. I will put out a short video sometime early next week. I was amazed how small it packs down. It is really nice material to work with (noticeably less stretch than normal sil nylon)

[Clockw3rk]

That is an excellent looking tarp. What's a badboy like that weigh?

[doogie]

That is an excellent looking tarp. What's a badboy like that weigh?

Full details in the upcoming video, but if memory serves it weighs in at 18.1 oz with 35' continuous ridgeline and 8' tie outs and 2 elastic bands with clips for the doors with some Dutch bling of course in the stuff sack.

[Just Bill]

Dutch...
Not looking to bash your product, just to have an open discussion.

Read past the first post, in aging tests the fabric dropped below 1000:
Comment from Richard-
"Since I had 3 samples of RBTR fabrics I was going to do aging tests on today, I added the Dutchware Xenon Sil to the analysis. After 5,400 wet flex cycles (simulates about 2 weeks of rain / wind) the HH was 984.19mm H2O.

Maybe the manufacture's stated rating of 1,000 mm H2O was the long-term-life value?"

That result aside...
A second question/observation- Why do you feel that low stretch is a priority or benefit?
I don't claim to have any real answers myself, so it's an honest question. I do notice in personal use and through many comments by knowledgeable folks at BPL that reducing tension (via slack, stretch, or simply adding shock cords) greatly improves water repellency by allowing the fabric to absorb some of the impact of rain. Simply stated, a slack tarp would perform better than a taut one when talking HH of less than 2000 (the UL fabrics offered by you and others)

So wouldn't the flexible fabric perform better?

MEMBRANE TARP.jpg

I give the fabric a good bit of the credit in this particular tarp... I didn't find the aged results of Richards test on it yet so can't say offhand how it did in the lab. But it's pretty well aged.
That said, I also give credit to the design itself keeping me dry. This is a stakeless tarp with 12" of shock cord (6" loop) on each tie out. So it "moves" with the weather rather than fights it.

When pushing SUL fabrics with sub 2000HH it seems that flexibility and stretch are your friends?
A taut, sag free pitch prevents flapping, looks sharp, and reduces damage to pull outs... But does it keep you dry?s
In my experience thus far it seems having a flexible system that balances weight, HH, sag, and rebound is ideal.

Folks don't like wet, saggy nylon. But as you and others get closer to stopping the nylon from wetting out in the first place...
It seemed like you have a low stretch nylon in this particular product as well?
Good innovation if so, and if you are promoting a low stretch nylon (vs a zero stretch poly) then sounds like we're barking up the same tree?

Again- you make great stuff... not picking on you just looking for your opinion and reasoning.
I don't think anyone has an answer but I think as a whole the MYOG gear community is getting farther down the road to one.

[Firesong]

Xenon is polyester. I think the community is looking for a low stretch tarp so in rain it doesn't sag against your hammock and gear. Lighter seems to be what people want and usually that means more stretch/ weaker. So new fabrics have to be developed to counter that. I've always hated tarps and tent flies that drooped in the rain against the inner tent or gear. Usually made the difference in a wet outing vs dry.

So if it's stronger and has good water repellency why not tighten it up. I hate shock cord on my tie outs. But just like you I have my preferences and it doesn't say that either way is the right way.

[Just Bill]

Also from the thread posted-

Richard Nisley-
"Kai later asked me to test if it was nylon or polyester since they advertise it as low stretch. In a flame it burns with black smoke rather than white smoke and the residue forms blackish beads rather than yellowish beads; these factors indicate that it is nylon"