Grumpy Squatch,
You are a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate you sharing with us.
Grumpy Squatch,
You are a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate you sharing with us.
I was speaking from personal experience as to being warmer with less on when I headed to bed due to less sweat retention, not because moisture is everyone's excuse for being cold in the cold with more clothes on. I snow camp regularly and found that I felt warmer after a few tries when I went to bed with less on... After more practice I found that, even with changing into dry clothes just before going to sleep, that I did in fact sweat a little from getting all situated for bed and so I was going to sleep a little wet... With a single layer I dried very quickly so I stayed warmer longer... With multiple layers I didn't dry sooo I woke up colder earlier in the night.... Either way I would still wake up in early morning cold. Now I take advantage of both principles, I go to sleep in a single layer to fight the moisture issue but I put my fleece pullover in the footbox of my bag to keep it warm... When I wake up cold, but moisture free, I put my pullover on, increasing my insulation, and get some instant warmth and get to sleep in ,nice and cozy warm, till that beautiful ball of fire rises over the ridge!
Last edited by Solohammock; 11-05-2015 at 12:52.
A plethora of good knowledge & wisdom from the above replies so I wont add to any of that.
But I will suggest as others have said before a water bottle of hot water to generate heat & also those little disposable hand/feet warmers work great to aid in keeping you toasty.
Plethora did I say plethora I did. LOL
Happy warm hanging.
@Grumpy... Who the heck said anything about stripping down in -40 degree weather, or even about sleeping naked? Let's curb the exaggeration and the attitude towards others that have different opinions than yours. You're not saving the masses from hypothermia.
Junebugdawn's and Solohammock's anecdotal experience is very common. I think bkrgi's explanation was as good as I've seen at describing what's going on there. You're obviously not the only one who feels like you do, and neither are we. Its not insidious, its a fact of the environment we both love. I don't doubt your knowledge and experience, but I disagree with your opinion. I also don't appreciate your disrespect with regard to others who have different opinions. State things as you see them as you wish, but please use the exaggerated words out of it. The longstanding difference of opinion is no myth. I think perhaps you've taken the myth of sleeping naked and applied it to all circumstances and then connected it to what I've proposed, and that would truly be incorrect.
Last edited by dakotaross; 11-05-2015 at 13:46.
"I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
- Kate Chopin
Sorry, I was trying to make a joke, and the rest of what I wrote was in response to Grumpy. No mistake I believe.Originally Posted by justme2
"I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
- Kate Chopin
I've seen a number of hangers, myself included, try and overcome the cold back by doubling up on top insulation. This is a strategy destined for failure. Being toasty warm on top just seems to ramp up the body's response by kicking up the perspiration. Unfortunately, your body doesn't just sweat on top. In this situation you might become "hot" on top and dump a bunch of moisture into both your top and bottom insulation. Complicate this process with some layers that act like a vapor barrier (pad, windshield protector, space blanket, silnylon UQP, etc) and things go badly.
My first "cold" trip out with a brand new silnylon UQP went badly. The temps dropped to just above freezing and the wind kicked up. I cinched down the UQP around my underside to block the wind, somewhat compressing the down UQ. To compound the problem I was covered in thermals, a fleece jacket, and other "warm" gear to help combat the cold. All of this I had worn for a few hours prior to bed so it was likely getting slowly filled with moisture from standing around the campfire (front side hot, back side cold).
The "Devil is in the details"....All of us could take identical equipment under the same conditions and some very small changes in how we employ the gear makes a world of difference. That's the great thing about this forum.....people talk about their successes but we also get a chance to learn from other folks failures.
Interesting thread. Thanks to Grumpy Squatch for providing references and everyone else who has provided input. It's all valuable - both scientific and real-life experience.
Over the years I've found I stay warmer with minimal clothes when I'm surrounded by down (sleeping bag, etc). However, as Solohammock recommended I also put additional clothing somewhere near me when I sleep (under me in a tent, beside me in a hammock) so I can either add clothes if I get cold or have warm clothes when I have to get up.
I go to sleep with dry Merino wool socks since my feet always seem to get cold and I cover my head. I always change out of daytime clothes.
I have not tried -40F and really don't have any desire to experience that kind of cold. I'll leave that to Shug and others... However, I've been fine at a bit below 0F with only my face getting cold. I make sure I regulate my temp so I don't sweat and don't get cold (with air gaps for too hot and extra clothes for cold).
question about this...as this will be my first cold season camping in the cold in a hammock (only small local trips for starters)....but with TQ and UQ, if you do perspire some, and it does affect the insulation...is this moisture noticeable? Or is it kind of subtle such that you cannot overtly detect like your down being wet? Maybe a dumb question?
Probably the lowest I will see this winter in my area is 25 degrees, and I have 20 degree TQ/UQ, and I plan to test my gear at these temps...learned a few things from this discussion, carry on!
PS - I prefer to just sleep with some light sports shorts when I sleep (ideally my tighty whities but that don't feel quite right in the woods somehow)...hopefully the insulation I have will do the job in of itself....
I've always taken the minimal clothing approach, not due to the reasons most people choose. I simply hate sleeping in clothes. I got my winter quilts custom made to handle -50C. I've slept comfortably in -34C with a light weight wool shirt, long underwear and wool socks. I just sleep more comfortably that way, so I ramped up the insulation to allow it.
I would say do not worry at all about the down and your moisture production, BUT, do dress yourself accordingly so as not to overheat and only doing it and adjusting will you begin to understand what works for you. Use moisture wicking clothes(oogle properties of wool) as you want the water vapour to freely move from your skin through your clothes and through the down....your heat pump will be the driving force for that. Having moisture collect in your clothing from sweat is just going to end in being uncomfortable. The Down will move all your normal moisture production freely to atmosphere IMO.
One thing I would pay special attention to is atmospheric moisture soaking your quilts at those temps more than anything else. So keeping your quilts exterior above dew points is the biggest thing to manage IMO. For me that means tossing a blanket that freely breathes over the ridge line. At no point would I ever use a non breathable anything on the outside of my quilts.
Or Hang in heavy tree cover as the radiant energy from the earth will be reflected back to your gear from that tree cover helping keep things above dew point especially on clear no wind nights.
It is all a juggling act but can be managed and I have been learning how to cope over the past yr sleeping outside using 20* quilts with some nights being a real challenge at keeping dew at bay
Life is too Short to not feed the addiction....Hang on and explore the World
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks