bears and hammocks

[obxh2o]

If anyone want the policy to change then an hammock advocate needs to get on the board.
All I got to say. Shug

It is a lot more fun to critique the board's stupidity than it is to sit through their boring board meetings.

[GreatBigDave]

28,000 people in 3 months is the issue.

[dudeman_atl]

28,000 people in 3 months is the issue.

That is truly the Philmont issue.

My dad was a ranger out there when part of his job was to show scouts how to sharpen their axe so they could chop wood for the cooking fire.

I don't think that any part of that is ever gonna happen again.

[Campdavid]

Arent bear bags mouse proof then?
I'm thinking those kevlar things here

Unfortunately not the one I used in the BWCA this past September. The outfitter gave us what was basically an insulated Duluth pack that apparently had a special sign on it that only mice could read "MICE WELCOME HERE...GOOD EATS." The bag was so infested the third night that my dad and I went the remainder of the trip on one Pemmican bar each. Felt like Frodo and Sam with their Elven bread.

[ckmaui]

a hammock just means they dont have to bend over as far
in a tent means they just bend over to the ground like they are used to

ANYONE who thinks a hammock or a tent is different is silly ! and I would say watch a bear get into a car and how quick they can rip a door off a car and think some nylon on the ground or hanging is going to make ONE bit of difference

[tangara]

We've had numerous occasions up here in Northeast PA where bears have hurt people in tents. It seems there was usually food involved. One was a scout who had taken a candy bar in the tent for a midnight snack and got sliced up for it. I've had one encounter where a bear walked past my hammock and around nearby tents, but didn't bother any of us. Eating area was well away from where we slept.

[gunner76]

tents are nothing more than bear fortune cookies

[Zorban]

I can't figure out how to edit a post after it's been a few days, so i'm just replying.

Any way, I got a reply, and it was just directing me towards their "Guidebook To Aventure" where it says (I underlined the most important part) this regarding tents:

Due to the terrain, wildlife, and sudden change in weather conditions, tents are a required shelter for a Philmont trek and therefore all crew members are required to sleep in a tent. Bivy sacks are not acceptable. Every member of your crew should be able to set up, take down, and fold the tent. Philmont uses two-person, free standing backpacking tents (foot print - 5’6” x 7’6”, approximate weight =5lbs. 13 oz.) called a “Thunder Ridge”. These tents have been designed in cooperation with Cascade Design and MSR. The tent requires 6-8 stakes and is available for your use at no charge. Philmont introduced a program in 2015 to wash each tent after each trek. Crews are asked to help with this process as they return the equipment they have checked out. If you choose to provide your own tent it must be a two person tent and free of all food smells. If you think your tent may have been compromised by food smells, please use a Philmont tent. Philmont will allow a single person tent in the event of an odd numbered crew, gender numbers and for youth protection compliance. Space for tents in most campsites is limited. Use of two-person tents minimizes the footprint and avoids encroaching on the “Bearmuda” Triangle (page 31). Two one-person tents take up nearly twice as much space as one 2-person tent. A 6’ x 8’ waterproof ground cloth must be used under each tent. These are not provided with the Philmont tents.

[dakotaross]

...I was looking up if hammocks were allowed at the Philmont scout reservation in New Mexico, and I saw that one of the reasons (#2) why you can't bring a hammock is because the bears may mistake it for a bear bag. I've never heard of that happening before and was wondering if any of you have ever had confrontation with a bear while in a hammock.

Here is the list of reasons: http://www.planphilmont.com/gear/per...gear/hammocks/

OMG, that has to be a hoax. So clearly false its beyond the realm of stupid.

[Boston]

I can't figure out how to edit a post after it's been a few days, so i'm just replying.

Any way, I got a reply, and it was just directing me towards their "Guidebook To Aventure" where it says (I underlined the most important part) this regarding tents:

Due to the terrain, wildlife, and sudden change in weather conditions, tents are a required shelter for a Philmont trek and therefore all crew members are required to sleep in a tent. Bivy sacks are not acceptable. Every member of your crew should be able to set up, take down, and fold the tent. Philmont uses two-person, free standing backpacking tents (foot print - 5’6” x 7’6”, approximate weight =5lbs. 13 oz.) called a “Thunder Ridge”. These tents have been designed in cooperation with Cascade Design and MSR. The tent requires 6-8 stakes and is available for your use at no charge. Philmont introduced a program in 2015 to wash each tent after each trek. Crews are asked to help with this process as they return the equipment they have checked out. If you choose to provide your own tent it must be a two person tent and free of all food smells. If you think your tent may have been compromised by food smells, please use a Philmont tent. Philmont will allow a single person tent in the event of an odd numbered crew, gender numbers and for youth protection compliance. Space for tents in most campsites is limited. Use of two-person tents minimizes the footprint and avoids encroaching on the “Bearmuda” Triangle (page 31). Two one-person tents take up nearly twice as much space as one 2-person tent. A 6’ x 8’ waterproof ground cloth must be used under each tent. These are not provided with the Philmont tents.

It's been a while since I was a scout, but IIRC it was pretty standard procedure for scouts to "buddy up" when camping. Sounds like Philmont basically requires this, although they don't specifically say so.

If it's only for erosion protection it sounds like it would be very easy to draft a set of hammock requirements that would leave even less trace than a 2-man tent. Something like: must have a fully enclose tarp (winter tarp) to address weather concerns (although I don't really agree with that, I think it would be easier to gain agreement from Philmont). Must use 2" wide tree straps for both tarp and hammock (or maybe 1" or 1/2" wide for tarp, 2" wide for hammock based on the forces involved). Hammock must be pitched with suspension roughly 30* off horizontal (prevent guitar string tight hangs, which I see often, and educate on proper hanging technique).

Based on the response they gave you, if you really want to make and effort and advocate for it, I think you could have a chance if you go about ti the right way. Will probably require meetings in person.