New For Sale forum coming

[OCDave]

I think people are getting all worked up over this....

...The best thing for everyone to do is follow the guidelines ....

Perhaps people are "getting all worked up" because they have a valid argument. Perhaps the restrictions have gone too far and merit push-back. Perhaps waiting to voice concerns could be interpreted as acquiescence.

As owner of the forums, you certain have the power to ignore the desires of the membership but, is that really the "best thing for everyone to do"?

[Zilla]

I think people are getting all worked up over this.
The reason we did this was to help the Moderators. They were spending way to much time in the FS forums trying to keep things organized.
Hopefully with us opening it up so users can Open, Close, Edit, and Move their own threads this will help the mods out tremendously, that is the hopes anyways.
We have to wait and see if this has helped and get all the kinks worked out.
If user can keep there threads up to date and organized we will look into raising the limit of items posted in each thread and allowing the other items back in the FS forum.

The best thing for everyone to do is follow the guidelines and keep there thread organized in the new FS forum and prove to us that they can. Then we can reassess this and possibly bring things back.

This is what i was hoping the plan was, thank you Attroll for stating it in your own words.
I'm really hoping that everyone contributes to managing thier fs threads.
I also think that if it is one or two bad actors that dont then instead of all of us paying the penalty by not having the restrictions lifted, that you just suspend those members rights from the fs section for some time .
This way the whole comunity doesn't have to suffer for the actions or lack of actions of just one or two members.

[BackpackerGuy]

"We have to wait and see. . ."

". . .we will look into raising the limit of items posted. . ."

". . .possibly bring things back.

OCDave-

There's your answer right there.

Kinda like sticking a pacifier in the mouth of a crying baby, hoping that 'shuts it up'.

You're not holding your breath expecting change, correct?

Perhaps people are "getting all worked up" because they have a valid argument. Perhaps the restrictions have gone too far and merit push-back. Perhaps waiting to voice concerns could be interpreted as acquiescence.

As owner of the forums, you certain have the power to ignore the desires of the membership but, is that really the "best thing for everyone to do"?

[cjayflo]

So go for maximum first? That's just not good business. How about doing post limits but keeping the old item rules?
Obviously this is not a popular move.

[Dead Man]

Perhaps people are "getting all worked up" because they have a valid argument. Perhaps the restrictions have gone too far and merit push-back. Perhaps waiting to voice concerns could be interpreted as acquiescence.

As owner of the forums, you certain have the power to ignore the desires of the membership but, is that really the "best thing for everyone to do"?

This is what i was hoping the plan was, thank you Attroll for stating it in your own words.
I'm really hoping that everyone contributes to managing thier fs threads.
I also think that if it is one or two bad actors that dont then instead of all of us paying the penalty by not having the restrictions lifted, that you just suspend those members rights from the fs section for some time .
This way the whole comunity doesn't have to suffer for the actions or lack of actions of just one or two members.

I sense that there is a level, albeit differing from member to member, that this won't be revisited. That this could ultimately be ignored. A stated timeline for this as a trial, say 90 days, then a scheduled revisit, stated for the obviously opinionated masses, might go a long way toward calming the waters.

I would hate to think that the site owner and moderators have no concern for the desires of the membership and am NOT suggesting that is the case in this matter. However, if this does reduce the impact on the moderators but isn't revisited, I see it harming this community in far more profound ways. All will be better served to tread lightly and more humbly. This poster included.

[OCDave]

... How about doing post limits but keeping the old item rules?...

Exactly! Limiting the number of posts or increasing the expectations of the membership in managing those posts seem reasonable changes to alleviate the burden on (volunteer?) moderators. Banning the sale of tents, camp chairs and such seems arbitrary and an overstep.

Consider implementing the New FS Forum but, eliminate the exclusions a,b,d and e? Do those items really add that much traffic?

What will be the determining factor that will "possibly bring things back"? Specifically the items excluded a,b, d and e.

[Floridahanger]

I don't usually sell any items so it would seem that I don't have much skin in the game.

That said, after reading why the change has come about, reading the concerns and weighing the pros and cons, it seems to me that many folks want to reach the end of the trail before they even leave the trailhead.

The FS forum wasn't working for the Mods and was too bogged down, even with constant tweaking and attempted policing the threads. Cleaning up after a party is no fun for the few that do it, but it needs to be done. A change had to come to keep the availability to buy and sell items allowed to us all, Donating Members and non Donating Members alike.

Rollouts usually start smaller than the final product and expand as the use increases and goals are achieved. This is no different than others and should be allowed to launch and given the chance to expand in value to all members.

Attroll and mods have always helped in expanding the value of this forum to us all and due respect should be given to this rollout in return. Remember, FS Forum is not a Right, but in fact, a Value Added section of a forum dedicated to discussing hammocks. As a member of this forum, I too will respectfully add my thoughts and concerns where I see an opportunity to increase value for others.

The Donating Members are rewarded by this Forum adding a Section open to other-than-hammock discussion. Maybe have 2 FS sub-forums. One FS Section with limited items directly related to hammocks and a second FS Section to reward Donating Members by allowing "other-than-hammock" sales.

[TallPaul]

I don't have skin in the FS section as I rarely use it but I do have skin in the overall site/community.

I support the changes being made as they are a long term play to ensure we have mods on this site that don't get burned out on the increasing administrative overhead of the F/S section.
To me it looks like a tough decision was made to reduce some of that overhead, with allowances to change what is specifically FS in the future.

[GoatHanger]

I have followed and read this from the beginning, but did not post. The reason, is that I understand that this is not my site, and ultimately, I really have no say.

So, that said... I don't like the changes either.... and that said, so what? It's not my site.

I do like attroll's most recent reply. I don't know him, so I'll take it as truth. I do understand what a workload it can be for the mods, and agree that something, whatever that is, should be done.

We are adults, so if we can't manage our own FS threads, we should have that privilege revoked temporarily as a consequence, as has been mentioned already in this thread.

I believe the item restrictions to be a bit much, but hey, whatever. The FS forum is not my primary reason for coming here. If it were to completely disappear, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Do I like it? No.

Does it affect the quality of my life? No.

Meh.

[slbear]

It's interesting to hear so many folks preface their comments with the disclaimer that they are not here for the FS forum. Good for them. I personally check the FS forum first and way more often than any other area. HYOH right?

Maybe stating the obvious that almost everyone thinks the restrictions go too far. And I like many think that saying the mods will revisit is wishful thinking. That is until they accept that these changes are not supported by the community at large.

As an engineer I was taught it was better to change one variable and assess the outcome, then keep adding on until you are happy. Do you ever go back and reintroduce some if the previous changes? Rarely, because there's bigger fish to fry.

This scenario has the mods throwing everything they can think of up front. Right at a time where commerce probably peaks. I'll applaud them if they go back and keep experimenting. I'd applaud them more if they listened to the members now and took the more logical step by step approach and give the seller controls a chance to work before implementing the more extreme measures.