New For Sale forum coming

[IRONFISH45]

WOW, no one will be able to REASONABLY state they did not see the up coming changes! LOL

[JasonACraft]

I don't think anyone sees it as a sense of ownership.

I do! Anything I'm willing to invest this much time and effort into Insee it as a "mine." Whether right or not, i've always looked at things this way. Out in the woods we LNT, see someone's old tarp shelter we clean it up, we take ownership of the things that matter to us. To look after them, to protect them.

I think what's happening in this thread however is the shattering of that illusion regarding this forum. I went through the same thing last month when the Colts didn't fire Pep the week I wanted them too. They're *my* Colts....but they're not too.

[Clockw3rk]

Why don't you put the burden on the seller? You're half way there by allowing them to close threads. If the seller can't maintain their own thread, they shouldn't be selling. You are providing a service to adults, not children that need their hands held through the whole process. They want to make money here, than they should also be responsible enough to see it all the way through. It is much easier to manage the lazy/forgetful posts....

I like this. It gave me an idea.
After 50 posts=Able to list Items.
Not willing to fulfill your duties as a FS poster or moderator deems you inapprops= banned from FS forum 3 mos.
I suppose people could open a new membership and post again but it's going to be a while (50 more posts) maybe they will be good boys next time.
Boom.

[Clockw3rk]

Don't forget the inactive for 7 days= code activated deleted post.
Double Boom

Who's the boom king?(flight of the conchords)

[daneaustin3]

I apologize if I misrepresented the HF statistics. All I saw was this: Attachment 120190

However, I respectfully contend that your stats may be in error: Attachment 120191
If there were 4500 active users online on a single day in early November, that would indicate to me that there are more than 4,243 Active Members.

And...it's my understanding that donations are considered tax-exempt.

Again, if I'm in error about any of this I apologize.

As a former moderator, maybe you can comment on the number of "Donating Members" historically.

Not to derail this thread but you can have more users online any given day than you have total members on a forum. When Google's bots hit it can skew that number by thousands.
I would contend thay there are around 4300 registered users that have logged in in the past year. There are only a few hundred that regulars on here and even less that are donating members.
I would guess that donating members make up barely enough money to pay the bill for the service to keep the site running.
With that said it would seem to me that when the owner sees most of his revenue generating users objecting to a new idea that he might reconsider that action. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. It saddens me to see that it is a deal with it or leave attitude.

[cataraftgirl]

I am not going to answer every post in this thread but I will say that the guidelines we posted are our stance on it now. That does not mean it will not change in the future. We have to take one step at a time and see how it works out.


As is it stands now you will only be allowed one thread and only one in the new For Sale Forum.
You can only sell three items in that thread.
That is how we are doing it for now. It does not mean we will not change it in the future, we have to see how this works out first.
Right now our Moderators spend way to much time trying to keep the FS forum up to date. The problem we are having is if a member has a thread with 10 or more items for sale in that thread. This thread usually has many replies being posted in it. Each time something gets sold in the thread the thread owner needs to contact a Mod and have them update the first post in the thread. The thread owner does not always contact a Mod to tell them something has sold so the Mods are always reading through the threads to see if they have and updating the thread. If you look at all the threads in the FS forums right now, there are quite a few. Which goes to show how much time the moderators are spending updating them.

As for not allowing tents to be sold in the FS forum. The web site is and has always been strictly for hammock and hammock camping. There are many other web sites you can go to out there if you want to talk about other things like tent camping and gps's. Our main focus here is hammocks and hammock camping. On another note, if you want to discuss things other than hammock camping you can become a Donating Member and you will get access to some additional forums here that are not strictly hammock camping but do somehow relate to them in some manner.

The explanation about posting and maintaining the For Sale threads makes perfect sense to me. I have no problem with the new rules in that regard. If it makes the For Sale Forum more manageable, that's great.

The list of included and excluded items on the other hand leaves me puzzled. A knife is considered a hammock related piece of gear, but a headlamp, flashlight, GPS, or camp chair isn't? Packs can be bought and sold, but those of us who don't backpack in order to use our hammocks (kayaks, canoes, bikes, motorcycles, day hikers, car campers, fishermen, photographers, etc.) can't buy or sell gear that is directly related to the use of our hammocks. I'll give you the tent thing, although I've sold two of them here over the years. One to a scout troop leader, and one to a HF member who, like me, sometimes has to use a tent. I'm perplexed about how other outdoor/hammock connected items were placed into the allowed and not allowed lists.

I stumbled upon HF six years ago when I got my first hammock at an outdoor expo. I've stayed because of the people. The people on HF have been the most friendly, helpful, respectful, and inclusive folks that I've come across. The theme here has always seemed to be "All are welcome here." I hope we don't lose that.

[bowl-maker]

You're probably right about the Users vs. Members thing......but really, who knows about the total membership? I stand behind my earlier remarks: it is what it is and we'll just move on.

[Countrybois]

I'll add my opinion that everything seems understandable except for the limit on what items can be sold. I think this is a disservice to the members of this forum.

[GreatBigDave]

At the risk of fanning the flames here, I feel that I need to ask that everyone who is upset about the rule changes to step back and try to see it from the other side.

Attroll and the mods are trying to solve the problem of overloading the mods in the For Sale forum. Fewer categories to sell, fewer threads, less load - where would you draw the line? In addition, sellers are being given the tools to keep FS threads and, collectively, the FS forum tidy and self controlled. If FS threads keep to the rules and sellers take care of housekeeping there should be far less burden on the mods. Attroll has indicated that the new rules are the rule for now but that they may change in the future. It seems reasonable to me that if the FS forum approaches self-moderation, we may see additional permitted categories. Taking on additional responsibilities earns us additional privileges.

We all feel this is our forum, it is certainly our community. It's really not fair to overburden one segment of our community and that's happening now in FS. Let's pull together and keep our community (on someone else's property) healthy and prosperous.

[gmcttr]

Not to derail this thread but you can have more users online any given day than you have total members on a forum. When Google's bots hit it can skew that number by thousands.
I would contend thay there are around 4300 registered users that have logged in in the past year. There are only a few hundred that regulars on here and even less that are donating members.
I would guess that donating members make up barely enough money to pay the bill for the service to keep the site running....

This is probably not far off although last I heard (some time back) the revenue including those other than donations brought in small amount above the annual costs.

You're probably right about the Users vs. Members thing......but really, who knows about the total membership? I stand behind my earlier remarks: it is what it is and we'll just move on.

Statistics were put together a year or more back and as best as I recall, active members (those logging in at least once in either the last 6 or 12 months) numbered in the 5000-7000 range or less.

Also, just because the the term "Donation" is used does not make it non-taxable. An entity must be registered as a 501(c)(3) or similar charitable organization to receive tax exempt status and HF and similar forums will never be that.