Hammock or liner fabrics without DWR coating?

**syc** · 03-13-2016, 15:11

It turns out that DWR coatings have chemicals that are known to accumulate in your body and cause your hormones to go wacko:
http://sectionhiker.com/why-does-dwr-suck/
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...tdoor-products

DWR makes sense on outside shells of quilts or hammocks, but maybe we could do without it on the inner liner or layer of quilts/hammocks? As far as I can tell, Dutchware and RBTR and other fabric sources only sell DWR coated fabrics. Does anyone know of a source for high quality lightweight fabrics like membrane, hexon, argon, robic, etc... that aren't coated in DWR chemicals?

**Caminante** · 03-13-2016, 15:42

That explains why I always wake up in my hammock in the mood for a conjugal visit.

**SimonMc** · 03-13-2016, 16:18

As long as you don't eat the fabrics you should be ok. As far as I know, there is no evidence to suggest skin contact results in any problems.

**DrPhun** · 03-13-2016, 16:28

I wouldn't worry about it. That is just pseudoscience. Some of these groups just want to freak people out so they give them money. If pfcs are really accumulating in people it is likely from cooking since Teflon is a pfc, not from clothing. Doesn't California require labels on almost everything saying it causes cancer? I have seen that warning sign in bars and restaurants but have never seen anyone turn around and leave because of it.

Are you sure all their fabrics have dwr? I just looked at some of the breathable fabrics on the ripstopbytheroll website and don't see dwr mentioned. Personally, I like dwr.

**sunsetkayaker** · 03-13-2016, 16:46

I have decided that it is not safe to visit California because of the increased risk of cancer due to everything. I will drink my soda in Florida where it does not cause cancer.

**Banjoman** · 03-13-2016, 22:36

I too would like to minimize my exposure to unnecessary chemicals, so I feel your concern. However, and maybe I skimmed the article too quickly, I think the main emphasis was that the environmental contamination was mostly occurring during the production of the clothing, right?... I don't think they were saying that wearing the clothing was leading to health issues.

As for the pseudoscience comment, there really are a lot of problems with chemicals in our waterways. I may sound a bit hippy here, but I'm not a hippy.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-water-supply/

**Stinky** · 03-13-2016, 22:42

Originally Posted by sunsetkayaker

I have decided that it is not safe to visit California because of the increased risk of cancer due to everything. I will drink my soda in Florida where it does not cause cancer.

ROFL. too funny

**DrPhun** · 03-14-2016, 17:06

Originally Posted by Banjoman

As for the pseudoscience comment, there really are a lot of problems with chemicals in our waterways. I may sound a bit hippy here, but I'm not a hippy.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-water-supply/

Not disputing that. Much is from industrial sources, and much of that from years ago when waste was just dumped wherever. I am thinking more of situations like BPA where some studies show it might impair devopment in children and another study says there seems to be more in the environment, but nothing showing a link between the two I.e. It leaching out of my Nalgene bottle. So scared consumers dump their refillable bottles and create lots of waste from disposable bottles (which contained BPA too - pretty much all clear plastic did.)

Or did you hear about that one (just one) study in the uk linking autism and vaccines? That study was discredited. And the doctor who did it lost his medical license. Because he was doing another study whose main purpose seemed to be to give him the opportunity to put things in little boys butts. (That is true, but the media doesn't promote it the same way because it doesn't freak people out as much. Their goal isn't to inform us. It is to get our attention.). The danger to kids from not getting vaccines is much greater than the risk from getting them (not autism but some allergic reactions.). A lot of people die every year from the flu when they could get an easy vaccination.

That's why I need my hammock to calm me down after watching some of the nonsense they show on the news.

**syc** · 03-14-2016, 18:41

Originally Posted by DrPhun

Or did you hear about that one (just one) study in the uk linking autism and vaccines? That study was discredited. And the doctor who did it lost his medical license. Because he was doing another study whose main purpose seemed to be to give him the opportunity to put things in little boys butts. (That is true, but the media doesn't promote it the same way because it doesn't freak people out as much. Their goal isn't to inform us. It is to get our attention.). The danger to kids from not getting vaccines is much greater than the risk from getting them (not autism but some allergic reactions.). A lot of people die every year from the flu when they could get an easy vaccination.

We have kids in my son's elementary school who's parents won't give them vaccinations due to superstitions about the possibility of autism. Jenny McCarthy may be a loving mother, and amazing eye candy, but she's no authority on human biology - its amazing that so many people listen to her. In any case, that was a finding that nobody was able to replicate, so it was discredited. There's a *lot* of studies that indicate pfoa and pfos is all over the place in gets into our bodies - but the evidence is mixed as to whether it is safe or not:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...0%2C5&as_vis=1
http://www.jstor.org/stable/27822994...n_tab_contents

I would also argue that the question of DWR chemistry getting into your body you via skin contact is not settled:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22047163
http://enveurope.springeropen.com/ar...190-4715-23-38

The risks are mostly theoretical at this point (I'm not ditching my Goretex for waxed cotton rainwear) but I'd like to know my options if I go the route of DIY.

**FredL** · 03-18-2016, 13:54

Originally Posted by SimonMc

As long as you don't eat the fabrics you should be ok. As far as I know, there is no evidence to suggest skin contact results in any problems.

Considering that the "transdermal" pathway is established as a way to administer medical substances and drugs, I would not blindly assume that these chemicals are any different. Skin as an organ is permeable. No clear evidence is not to be regarded as a disconfirmed hypothesis. Personally I got some excellent 17 g/sqmeter nylon from this seller. Their normal stock is DWR, but they produced a fresh batch (by luck) and they kept some untreated for me

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1112...08.0.35.3K2Ibw

I highly recommend this store, they sell the most affordable ultralight nylon I know of. Equivalent to 7 or 10D for 5-6 dollars per meter full width. There are only a few orders made so far, I had two and was totally reliable. People should use them more so they can put up more items.

Good silnylon and silpoly there too.