16 degrees is cold...

[bonsaihiker]

I'd like to preface this by saying that I am a relative newbie at winter camping, having done a little 30 years ago in scouts, and once on the ground (snow) with my wife which was pretty miserable. Part of the reason I've avoided cold weather is because I am a cold sleeper. I decided this year that I am tired of having to wait until spring to get outside, so I started acquiring new gear. Just got the final piece of gear I needed for cold weather this week--a GoLite 0 degree bag, and temps last night were predicted for 22 degrees, clear, with no wind. Perfect night for testing!

I set up in 26 degree weather wearing my JRB down sleeves, down vest, and snow pants with only a light base layer underneath, powerstretch balaclava with wool beanie, and homemade wrist warmers. I was very comfortable the whole time.

I hung my hammock with my new Te-wa Winter Coat underneath, my bag on top with my feet/legs on a blue pad. No tarp as the weather was so nice. I used a poly-fill pillow for my head and used the vest under my knees. Inside the bag I only wore the light synthetic base layer, wool socks, balaclava, beanie, and wrist warmers, and drifted warmly off to sleep. The only issue was getting the UQ positioned just right--I think my shoulders are too wide for this quilt, but I'm still playing with it.

I woke up around midnight sweating, and had to figure out the best way to vent without freezing part of me. It was 21 degrees. Got it worked out and went back to sleep.

Woke up again around 3:30 feeling sick-ish (stomach), and spent some time inside the house (I'll spare the details). Got back in the hammock with the temps at 19 degrees. My feet were freezing, so I put the down sleeves over my feet. I cinched down the bag a bit more, and tried to go back to sleep. Between feeling bad, the cold feet, and trying to keep the UQ adjusted, I slept poorly for the next 3 hours. I just could not seem to get warmed back up. When I did finally get up at 6:30 because my feet were just starting to get numbish, the thermometer was reading 16 degrees!

I thought that was pretty good, considering there were some things I could have done to amp up the warmth a bit--things I would have had close to hand if I were actually camping--but I was concerned mostly about my feet. Maybe an extra pair of socks/clothing or a vapor barrier/space blanket? I probably should have used a tarp--things were pretty much covered in frost--and that would have helped, I'm sure. I'm also thinking about a DriDucks poncho UQ/over cover, but I've spent quite a lot so far. I'm also thinking that the illness was partly to blame, as my feet weren't too bad before that.

Any thoughts or ideas about this? Am I approaching this with the right plan? I'm hoping to make it to Mt. Rodgers if my schedule permits, but I'm thinking this may not be much of a safety margin...

[slowhike]

Sounds to me like you had most bases covered pretty well. What did you have on your feet when you went into the house sick & came back out? Sounds like that's when your feet got cold.
If I ever let my feet get cold, it takes a while & maybe an external source of heat (hot water bottle) to get them warm again.

I tend to have to take extra measures to keep my feet warm, therefore, I have remained hesitant about the shorter UQs, even though I've read so many positive reports on them.
But I suppose if all the following was done to help the feet, the shorter UQ should be fine.
Good top quilt w/ plenty insulation in the footbox.
Be sure that the hammock is not so narrow in the foot area that it would be compressing the footbox of the top quilt.
Warm pants as well as other clothing, including head wear.
Thick socks &/or down booties. Must be loose enough to not interfere w/ blood flow.
External heat source like hot water bottle.

Of course extra layers of protection from air movement will help, like...
Hammock sock
Undercover
Tarp

[Doctari]

Looks like you have the insulation you need. Were you warm until you went into the house? If so, getting sick can lower your resistance to cold. And spending time,,, um,,, Worshiping at the porcelain alter calling out for the god Ralph, can take a lot out of you. Pun intended. I carry a few packs of chemical toe warmers just for those times, even in the summer in the mountains. The toe warmers are small but provide just enough to get thru those times. AND, if you have a good zip lock, & seal it tight, you can use one on one night, & the other on the next night. In your case, one on each foot could have gotten you thru the "cold feet I can't sleep" time.

Now I wish I had slept outside. I looked out my window this morning, saw the heavy frost & said a few bad words, my wife said "Yep, it got cold last night, I'm surprised you slept in here." !@$#%&**$!#$%@

[HappyCamper]

I slept out with my TeWa winter quilt last night too. I went inside around 1 am for bathroom break and stayed inside a little longer than intended. Went out to hammock and my feet got cold too. I think my feet were sweating in wool socks when I was inside and when I went back out to hammock the sweaty socks made me cold. I think I should have switched to dry socks. But it wasn't that bad so I didn't.

Being sick probably played a large part too, but next time feet are cold, try switching to new pair of socks.

[bonsaihiker]

Sounds to me like you had most bases covered pretty well. What did you have on your feet when you went into the house sick & came back out? Sounds like that's when your feet got cold.
If I ever let my feet get cold, it takes a while & maybe an external source of heat (hot water bottle) to get them warm again.

I tend to have to take extra measures to keep my feet warm, therefore, I have remained hesitant about the shorter UQs, even though I've read so many positive reports on them.
But I suppose if all the following was done to help the feet, the shorter UQ should be fine.
Good top quilt w/ plenty insulation in the footbox.
Be sure that the hammock is not so narrow in the foot area that it would be compressing the footbox of the top quilt.
Warm pants as well as other clothing, including head wear.
Thick socks &/or down booties. Must be loose enough to not interfere w/ blood flow.
External heat source like hot water bottle.

Of course extra layers of protection from air movement will help, like...
Hammock sock
Undercover
Tarp

Thanks, slowhike. Great advice. A hot water bottle might have made a difference. I definitely think I should have worn thicker/more socks. I should probably think about a hammock sock, but my condensation experience with my HH supershelter made me go without last night.

How does the DriDucks system work out as far as condensation? Is it breathable enough?

[bonsaihiker]

Looks like you have the insulation you need. Were you warm until you went into the house? If so, getting sick can lower your resistance to cold. And spending time,,, um,,, Worshiping at the porcelain alter calling out for the god Ralph, can take a lot out of you. Pun intended.

I definitely think the illness was part of it, though I didn't get that sick...

I carry a few packs of chemical toe warmers just for those times, even in the summer in the mountains. The toe warmers are small but provide just enough to get thru those times. AND, if you have a good zip lock, & seal it tight, you can use one on one night, & the other on the next night. In your case, one on each foot could have gotten you thru the "cold feet I can't sleep" time.

<Slaps forehead> Doh! Chemical heat packs! Great idea, and I have a box of them I could have used. I rarely use them, so didn't even think about it...great idea, thanks!

Now I wish I had slept outside. I looked out my window this morning, saw the heavy frost & said a few bad words, my wife said "Yep, it got cold last night, I'm surprised you slept in here." !@$#%&**$!#$%@

Sounds like something my wife would have said.... They do think we're weird, don't they?

[madizazzo]

Just my opinion, but the fact that you weren't feeling well sort of voids out your test. In my experience, when sick a person's body temperature regulation can go haywire.

I've gone from being drenched in sweat with a minimum of covering to freezing after piling on everything I had with me.

Perhaps you should consider redoing your test.

[bonsaihiker]

I slept out with my TeWa winter quilt last night too. I went inside around 1 am for bathroom break and stayed inside a little longer than intended. Went out to hammock and my feet got cold too. I think my feet were sweating in wool socks when I was inside and when I went back out to hammock the sweaty socks made me cold. I think I should have switched to dry socks. But it wasn't that bad so I didn't.

Being sick probably played a large part too, but next time feet are cold, try switching to new pair of socks.

Good thought. I pay attention to moisture issues, hence the venting. My socks didn't feel moist--they aren't that thick or warm enough to make me sweat inside. Thicker would have been better outside, though.

I think my feet got cold inside from lack of insulation and the fact that we turn our furnace down at night, and then once the blood circulation was compromised by vasoconstriction I just could not get them warmed back up without something warming them up, like slowhike said.

I wonder if I had done some exercise if it would have been less of an issue, but I was definitely not feeling like exercise at the time....

Are you liking your Te-wa quilt? Mine sure was warm where it covered me...can't believe how thick that thing puffs up. I think I just need something wider. May have to check out a Crow's Nest.

[bonsaihiker]

Just my opinion, but the fact that you weren't feeling well sort of voids out your test. In my experience, when sick a person's body temperature regulation can go haywire.

I've gone from being drenched in sweat with a minimum of covering to freezing after piling on everything I had with me.

Perhaps you should consider redoing your test.

Yes, I agree, and I will, with a couple heat packs handy, and probably a tarp as well.... Thanks!

[HappyCamper]

Thicker would have been better outside, though.

I wonder if I had done some exercise if it would have been less of an issue, but I was definitely not feeling like exercise at the time....

Are you liking your Te-wa quilt? Mine sure was warm where it covered me...can't believe how thick that thing puffs up. I think I just need something wider. May have to check out a Crow's Nest.

Yes, my wool socks were pretty thick. I started hanging outside at about 9 pm. When I went in at 1 am I ate some mixed nuts, that might have helped me as well. Get that inner furnace going again.

Winter Te-wa -- I've been pleasantly surprised by it. I wasn't a big believer in these shorter quilts but had to try them since they were getting great reviews. Since I'm a cold sleeper, I was only expecting to take the Te-wa into the low 30's and last night I was really comfortable at 22. I had a Speer 1/4' pad under legs, also pillow at knee and head. Wore wool long john bottoms, 1 pair of thick wool socks, wool long john top, and I did have my Montbell down liner jacket on with my JRB down hood velcroed to the jacket collar. Had on gloves but took those off during night. I did not use a tarp last night as the night was not windy and we were not predicted to get any more snow. So I was wide open on top except for my NoSniv+5 on top. (I added enough down to my No Sniv to make it same weight as Rocky Mt. NoSniv.) No hot water bottle or heat paks needed last night. (Although I use them more on the trail, to give me a jumpstart. On trail I get colder from being out in cold all day long.)

I'm still learning to cinch all my underquilts correctly. I have a tendency to cinch them too tight at the top and then they slip off my shoulder. I am trying a looser cinch without getting an air gap and then I added a loop at the shoulder point of my Blackbird and the Te-Wa and I use a cordlock, thin bunge cord and a mitten hook to hook the underquilts at my left shoulder to prevent that inconvient shoulder slip that I've gotten on all my UQ's.

Seemed to work well enough last night.