hardware alternative to tato tarp connector?

**sqidmark** · 06-24-2016, 18:55

I left the tarp set up today while I went to work. I came home to see it flapping around in a pretty good wind. Mrs sqidmark tells me it's been quite breezy all day. The wind was hitting the tarp exactly broadside.

One of the bury's slipped. I'll make the bury's 1/2" longer and see what happens. One disadvantage to these things is that they you have to dismantle the whole CRL in order to make changes. Well, since mine has a Dutch hook spliced on one end I have to take everything off via the opposite end. However, I feel that once the correct formula is found I may never have to change it again (wishful thinking?).

Planning to spend the night under it and I hope it stays kinda windy. Fingers are crossed.

EDIT: Finished getting the tarp back up at 10pm. Would have to get the step ladder out to get straps high enough in the tree. With the large diameter of these trees, even with two of us it would be a pia at this hour. Not gonna happen tonight.

**sqidmark** · 06-27-2016, 13:29

We spent 2 nights under the tarp. No slippage, no problems, but conditions were mild. I did make the bury's a half inch longer on the mini-ucr's. I don't have the exact specs with me, I'll look it up when I get home, but I think it was 3" start, 2-1/2" finish. I think for additional insurance I'm going to add another 1/2". I'm pretty sure that'll be 3-1/2" to start and about 3" finished.

**MikekiM** · 07-01-2016, 06:01

Congrats to both of you.. Two 'new' ideas that seem to work well!

Massis, I love over-engineered aspect of your setup and I've been studying the details in your other thread.

Since I am pretty happy with the Dutch bling I'm using, the traditional Wasp/hook configuration with prussiks to tension the tarp, and I absolutely HATE prussiks, I am keenly interest in sqidmark's mini-ucr's. As Redoleary said in his post, linked above, I always found that if a prussic had enough wraps to hold it would also jam, if it was easy to slid to adjust it would slip.

Currently I am using micro cord prussiks on a Zingit CRL, with double diamond knots attached to the ridge line rings on my MamaJamba (the same way Redoleary has it). The prussik loop is simply larks headed around the diamond knot. The larks head/diamond knot is a great 'no hardware' option (diamond knot is reflective cord so I get some safety benefit as well) and larks heading it replaces previously used soft shackles which were too laborious to undo when using zingit. That said, for a tight as the micro cord prussik locks down, it's small size and tremendous bite makes it almost painful to loosen. Add in a little North East Pine Sap on the CRL and it's darn near impossible.

I'd love to replace the prussik with a mini-ucr that has a loop long enough to larks head over the diamond knot. Sqidmark, have your come to a verdict on the mini-ucr? is the 2.5" bury holding? You added the whipping to keep tension on the end of the bury correct? And the overhand knot is keep the whipping from coming off as well as finish the end of the zingit for fray prevention? Would a simple bury at the end where the whipping is accomplish the same thing?

Originally Posted by sqidmark

I will be replicating the above, but will be making the fixed eye a bit larger, using a locked brummel, so that I can more easily larks head it around the diamond knot. I have to measure the length of the prussik knots I have now.. I needed to make them pretty long in order to be able to make a larks head, and believe it or not, I think the mini-ucr might end up being shorter in overall length. I still have plenty of micro cord for the whipping. As I think about my cordage inventory, I believe this is going to be pretty colorful.. Like Benetton colorful!!

I would love to hear how it's working as I REALLY want to replace the prussiks with some other setup, and remain hardware free at the tarp/ridge line connection.

**sqidmark** · 07-01-2016, 08:23

We set our tarp up over the last weekend and just took it down the night before last. The 2.5" mini-ucr's held everything together even through a fairly heavy rain day/night, although there was no strong wind. I'm still inclined to go with 3" though.

So far I'm pretty darned happy with it. Yes the whipping is both to keep tension and to help prevent fraying. Yes, the overhand is to keep the whipping from slipping off and to stop fraying. Yes you could use a bury but I'm not so sure that would help the whipping. I'm only concerned about the whipping slipping off because I find that I tend to push/pull on it while adjusting, so I figure without the knot eventually it's gotta move. Maybe I'm just being paranoid though.

I'm probably misunderstanding what you mean larks heading around a diamond knot. If you're going to larks head the eye, just be aware that you'll have to do so before burying the CRL. Last iteration, I just left off the loop and tied to the d-ring. Even slippery, if untying for some reason, that can be a pia so I may go back to a loop and use a mico s-biner or some other connection. Tying does allow it to be kept very short though.

**adam.skinner** · 07-01-2016, 09:21

I was actually thinking about this issue last night. I think using an Alpine Butterfly (or a series of them) or even a daisy chain would work pretty well in most cases. This is the equivalent of using slap straps on your hammock suspension. It's going to reduce the total length of the CRL, but they're usually too long anyway.

Now that I think on it, the alpine butterfly could be attached to a bit of shock cord to provide the required flexibility. Or you could do an actual daisy chain off of the alpine butterfly to really dial it in. This would be used with S-biners.

This solution removes the placement flexibility that a kleimheist provides, but it doesn't have the same foibles as the kleimheist. It has different foibles =) Since alpine butterflies are fairly easy to tie and untie, you could simply determine where you want your placement and tie it.

In fact, if we were to get fancy and use some bling, we could simply find a spot in the center of our line to place the alpine butterfies, attach the hardware to the alpine butterflies, and wrap around the trees like we would in a non-CRL situation. In this case, the line itself takes the place of the tarp in terms of center tension, and the tarp may be attached at leisure. This would kind of be like dialing in your underquilt, knowing it's going to be fine once it's attached.

**MikekiM** · 07-01-2016, 16:29

Originally Posted by sqidmark

I'm probably misunderstanding what you mean larks heading around a diamond knot. If you're going to larks head the eye, just be aware that you'll have to do so before burying the CRL. Last iteration, I just left off the loop and tied to the d-ring. Even slippery, if untying for some reason, that can be a pia so I may go back to a loop and use a mico s-biner or some other connection. Tying does allow it to be kept very short though.

I am doing what Redoleary depicted in his video. That's where I got the idea. A double diamond knot is attached to each tarp ridge line ring. A long prussik is attached to the ridge line, in my case with micro cord continuous loop, so there is no spliced eye, just a regular loop. That loop gets larks headed around the diamond knot. Pretty simple, yet elegant solution.

In adapting you ucr solution, I'll use your exact ucr design but make the fixed eye large so I can larks head it.

As I think about it, I might try a locked whipping knot instead of the basic larks head. Not sure how well it will work on Zingit.

Sent from East of Montauk

**sqidmark** · 07-01-2016, 20:23

I had to go back and rewatch the video. Now it makes sense. Yeah that is a nice solution, however, I rate tying diamond knots about as pleasurable as hitting myself in the head with a hammer. I suppose if I tried tying them enough times it would eventually "click" for me, but I fear that could be a long long time. Couldn't a CL with double fisherman's achieve the same thing? Ok, knot diameter not really big enough I guess. Sigh.

**MikekiM** · 07-01-2016, 22:29

Yeah, sure.. I suppose lots of knots could work. A good Caveman's Stomach Tying Knot even. Well, no such thing as that, but I've been using that name for anything that is a jumbled up monkey fist tangle of cordage. LoL..

I love tying the diamond knots so when I first starting playing with soft shackles & using them on CRL, I got hooked on diamond knots.

Here's how I am using it on the CRL.

Micro cord prussik on the CRL and Diamond knot on the tarp

Put a loop into the end of the prussik and..

Larks head the prussik over the diamond knot.

Under tension the larks head locks onto the diamond knot about as tight as a soft shackle does, which is to say, like a Pit bull, but it's easier to open and close than the soft shackle especially when we are working with Zingit.

The overall length of this is six inches per side. The prussik needs to be rather long or its near impossible to negotiate the larks head. The diamond knots tail could (and should) be shorter.

Sent from East of Montauk

**MikekiM** · 07-01-2016, 22:49

So I got to playing with your micro ucr. Theory evolved into execution and I have to say, I love it. Here's my addition to your concept to make it play nice with the diamond knot.

The bury on my first attempt came out short.. About 2" as it is now. And while that is holding hard against any tension I can inflict by hand, I would think it needs to be a longer bury. I did the overhand knot as you did, but I locked the whipping. The cord I used for the whipping is too big and now that I see I like the setup I will redo them with a lighter whipping cord. My changes are on the other end where I put a locked eye just larger than the diamond knot and then a locked whipping knot.

The idea for the locked whipping knot is that after the whipping is done, the end of the whipping cord goes through the eye and then is tucked back under the whipping. This prevents the whipping from accidentally sliding off the end of the fixed eye. Getting the tension right on the whipping is tedious. It has to be tight enough to hold but loose enough to slide and that's after the lock line is buried under it all. After the eye is placed over the diamond knot the locked whipping knot is snugged down against the base of the diamond knot. I don't lay claim to any of this, it's just reusing ideas I've seen others use.

Once the whipping knot is snugged down its going to hold tight.

Overall length came in at exactly the same as my prussik/diamond knot set up. Since I know I can shorten the tail on the diamond knot, the length saved there will allow for a longer bury without increasing overall length.

I am surprised and pleased with how easily the mini ucr slides and then locks. Mind you, I haven't tested this yet so the longevity of the locked whipping knot idea and the short bury are theory only, as is the ease of adjustment once things are under tension. I'll rebuild a set on my regular ridge line tomorrow and give them a proper test.

Sent from East of Montauk