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  1. #361
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info on Crosshammock, Hang-loose. I figured they would be about equal in comfort. The main difference seems to me is the deep pad pocket that is on the HT90, vs the pad slots on the head/foot end on the CH. I can see pros and cons to either approach, Though the CH has at least a potential advantage, maybe. With the deep pocket on the HT, if your pad was not 3" thick or more, insulation with a pad might not be all it should be. Because the inner shell of the hammock would support my weight very slightly above the pad. Keeping me from making firm contact with the pad. Potentially colder than it should be. But with the CH, I think my weight with any thickness of pad would be right on the pad and completely supported by the pad.

    OTOH, with the HT90, a light quilt could be added to fill any gap between a less than 3" pad to end up with solid contact and more than 3" of insulation. Even with a very light, thin pad to give more support to the hammock, so that length doesn't collapse when going to side position. Or, a quilt could be added even with no pad, making it an Inner Quilt. So, I'm not sure which I would prefer between those 2, pad wide. But I'm thinking maybe the cross. It might be simpler being able to count on just the pad for insulation, whether a thick pad or somewhat thinner pad.

  2. #362
    Member
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    The cross also has the option of a removable bugnet. Which might make breakfast from the hammock Shugstyle possible.

    The minor gap between hammock and pad in the 90HT is annoying because it forces you to bring extra insulation in colder weather.

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  3. #363
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregfromHolland View Post
    The cross also has the option of a removable bugnet. Which might make breakfast from the hammock Shugstyle possible.

    The minor gap between hammock and pad in the 90HT is annoying because it forces you to bring extra insulation in colder weather.

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    Having a removable bug net is huge, that is another thing I did not like(in addition to the low weight ratings) about the HT90: the choice was net or no net.

    Yes, that gap is annoying, although with a thick enough winter pad it won't exist. I have always used my 2.5" thick TR NeoAir All Season in it. That leaves a little gap or at least not firm contact, so the valleys between the baffles probably don't get compressed adequately, probably allowing cold air to seep into those valleys. Still, though I cannot remember the details, I think I was warm enough at close to freezing, except for my legs. I suppose since legs place even less weight on the pads, making the gap more likely or pronounced? So I placed a jacket that I did not need to sleep in on top of the pad(in the pad pocket) and was fine head to toe.

    But, still, that pad is probably good too much lower temps than the 30sF, and I did not feel so warm so as to think I could have gone much lower(maybe a little?). But I never got to put it to the test.

    In addition to being able to add jackets or quilts to fill whatever gap, there was also the ability to use a quilt only(with NO pad or a much thinner pad), as an inner quilt. I had actually added some Kam (Cam?) snaps to a light quilt and in the HT90 to keep the quilt spread wide in the pad pocket, worked good. Stayed in place and puffed up solidly into my back. What I liked about that system, compared to a normal UQ, there is no possibility of any gaps or quilt movement. NONE!

    Of course, with no pad in there to give it shape, it is pretty weird when you move, since now only my body is providing shape to the hammock. Particularly when going into fetal, the hammock length collapses to the length of my body in fetal position. That feels very odd at first. But, OTOH, that is then the most comfy hammock I have ever used in fetal position. Even more comfy than the HT90 with a pad, which is at least equal to any other hammock(better than most) for side or fetal sleeping. But for me, with no pad, it wins the prize(for fetal) And with an IQ if needed in cool weather. Because a ridge would develop in the hammock, and that ridge would be right under my side giving support better than any other hammock I have used. Just the opposite of the problem noticed by side sleepers in many hammocks: side torque or side twist, where the head and legs are forced s bit higher than the sides.

    So, I can see pros and cons to each system. But, if using a pad only(as most folks will do I think), which is not near as weird as with no pad and still super comfy and gives the hammock it's shape, I can see that the CrossHammock method would be superior. Allowing all body weight to be solidly on the pads, always.

    Either way, a heads up to USA vendors. Whose up for manufactureing a 90 hammock with 250-400 lb weight rating, and either a deep pad pocket, or a small interior pocket on each end meant to keep the pad in place? Or both? And with either no net or a removable net? If you do, I most likely will be immediately buying one from you.

    And while I am making wishes for products from USA vendors, I might as well add: how about a redo of the Speer Pea Pod? Long enough to close over the ends of the hammock? Tapered narrow on the ends just like a gathered end hammock, but wide enough in the middle to come around from the bottom and drape down over the sides just enough to make contact with the body. A top closure with Velcro or zipper and/or snaps.

    There is no quilt system, in my experience, that matches this for being guaranteed draft free. It even works great as a warmer weather, a lighter system, say 30F or 40-50 rated, then just add some lighter quilts INSIDE the pod when and if needed. Loosen the pod suspension up to make room for them. Then the entire system continues to benefit from the outer pods draft proof system. I do fine with my regular quilts, but this was the most consistent and worry free way to be warm in a hammock that I ever used. IMO, it significantly improves the freedom from drafts of both TQs and UQs. And one can move around more freely inside the pod without concern for causing a draft while moving in your sleep. I even have a buddy who used a 50F rated Speer Pea Pod with a pad under the hammock inside the pod, to sleep nice and warm in the 20s at least.

    I would have bought another one(or the larger Polar Pod version) long ago if TTTG/Dale, who took over Speer products, had not gone out of business. And I will buy one(as of now, never know about the future) if they were to become available again. OTOH, if someone starts making a USA based version of the HT90 or CrossHammock, I might never use a gathered end again and thus could not benefit from a Pea Pod.

    EDIT: I copied the stuff about desiring a vendor to look into making a version of the HT90 and/or a Speer Pea Pod into a new thread titled " Heads up vendors: my current wish list".
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 06-15-2021 at 21:59.

  4. #364
    Member
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    After the 90degree HT I dove deeper into the hammock rabbit hole and now I own also a GE and a ridgerunner.

    The 90*degree HT is still by far the most comfortable.
    (but in winter I prefer the gathered end)


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  5. #365
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    I wanted to comment on an ongoing process that a few of you are aware of.

    History in a nutshell: About 2.5 years ago I developed a modified Hammocktent 90 that I approached Luke with. He was not interested primarily because he believed his true niche was providing an ultralight backpacking hammock. But with his blessings, he didn't mind if I produced the modified hammock or approached another vendor. I did approach a major vendor who was interested enough after using one of my prototype designs that they asked me not to say anything about it while they further evaluated the design. After sitting on the design for 2 years, as of March, I requested they send the prototype back so that I could pursue other avenues.

    Also, this spring I turned out another prototype design that I believe is an improvement for simplicity and cost. Honestly this second prototype was the first hammock I have sewn and it was a challenge. Although I considered this attempt not completely successful due to some short comings on my design, it definitely has promise and I ordered more fabric for another foray. While doing this, I came up with a third design that I also have purchased the materials to complete. But now that summer is here in Montana I have been tooooooo busy slaving away at outdoor projects, like building a tool shed, and both 90 degree prototype projects sit beside the sewing machine with a promise of getting back at it when winter comes.

    Back to the initial prototype that I sent off to the vendor. I had been waiting to see how my other two novel prototypes turned out with the idea of sending all three off to a new vendor. Then yesterday after reading the comments herein over the last couple of days I decided I needed to move forward. Yesterday I emailed a second vendor to gauge their interest. Too me, this vendor seems to be inventive and on the cutting edge continually. If they are interested I said I would also share the other two concepts I have been working on because with their expertise I believe they have the ability to make it happen faster than this 69 year old cowboy cursing at the sewing machine can make it happen (in truth, more an operator error problem).

    Yes, I know I sound just like the young lad that cried wolf too many times over the past two years. But I just wanted to let you know there could be exciting things, and less expensive things, in the future of 90 degree hammocks. I would also say that if you know of a vendor who might be interested I am open to hearing from them. Bottom line for me is I am not looking to make any money on this. For me the reward is seeing an idea, (like MY idea, a small miracle in itself) come to fruition that could be a blessing to the hammock community. One small request, I would like to have the hammock named after the area I live in.

    Rest assured one of the original prototypes hangs suspended from the red iron trusses just behind me and I regularly visit it for a nights sleep. i'm still impressed in the overall comfort of a 90 degree. Tease: GregfromHolland, if you slept in a Hammocktent 90 with a UQ for insulation you might not need a GE for winter use ;-)

  6. #366
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    OTD, I knew about your earlier inquiry with a vendor. And I'm still hoping you and another vendor get something going! YAY! Here's hoping!

  7. #367
    Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlTrailDog View Post

    Rest assured one of the original prototypes hangs suspended from the red iron trusses just behind me and I regularly visit it for a nights sleep. i'm still impressed in the overall comfort of a 90 degree. Tease: GregfromHolland, if you slept in a Hammocktent 90 with a UQ for insulation you might not need a GE for winter use ;-)
    OlTrailDog, curious to know which UQ did you use and how?

  8. #368
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    I use an Arrowhead Designs Ridgecreek or a HG Phoenic. Mainly because that is what I had from the time I owned a WB Ridgerunner hammock. But that isn't critical, it is just what I had. Unfortunately, at this point I should not say how. The first vendor requested that I not reveal how. I am assuming IF there are other vendors interested they would feel the same way. I suppose I will know soon enough, and then you will too.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlTrailDog View Post
    I wanted to comment on an ongoing process that a few of you are aware of.

    History in a nutshell: About 2.5 years ago I developed a modified Hammocktent 90 that I approached Luke with. He was not interested primarily because he believed his true niche was providing an ultralight backpacking hammock. But with his blessings, he didn't mind if I produced the modified hammock or approached another vendor. I did approach a major vendor who was interested enough after using one of my prototype designs that they asked me not to say anything about it while they further evaluated the design. After sitting on the design for 2 years, as of March, I requested they send the prototype back so that I could pursue other avenues.

    Also, this spring I turned out another prototype design that I believe is an improvement for simplicity and cost. Honestly this second prototype was the first hammock I have sewn and it was a challenge. Although I considered this attempt not completely successful due to some short comings on my design, it definitely has promise and I ordered more fabric for another foray. While doing this, I came up with a third design that I also have purchased the materials to complete. But now that summer is here in Montana I have been tooooooo busy slaving away at outdoor projects, like building a tool shed, and both 90 degree prototype projects sit beside the sewing machine with a promise of getting back at it when winter comes.

    Back to the initial prototype that I sent off to the vendor. I had been waiting to see how my other two novel prototypes turned out with the idea of sending all three off to a new vendor. Then yesterday after reading the comments herein over the last couple of days I decided I needed to move forward. Yesterday I emailed a second vendor to gauge their interest. Too me, this vendor seems to be inventive and on the cutting edge continually. If they are interested I said I would also share the other two concepts I have been working on because with their expertise I believe they have the ability to make it happen faster than this 69 year old cowboy cursing at the sewing machine can make it happen (in truth, more an operator error problem).

    Yes, I know I sound just like the young lad that cried wolf too many times over the past two years. But I just wanted to let you know there could be exciting things, and less expensive things, in the future of 90 degree hammocks. I would also say that if you know of a vendor who might be interested I am open to hearing from them. Bottom line for me is I am not looking to make any money on this. For me the reward is seeing an idea, (like MY idea, a small miracle in itself) come to fruition that could be a blessing to the hammock community. One small request, I would like to have the hammock named after the area I live in.

    Rest assured one of the original prototypes hangs suspended from the red iron trusses just behind me and I regularly visit it for a nights sleep. i'm still impressed in the overall comfort of a 90 degree. Tease: GregfromHolland, if you slept in a Hammocktent 90 with a UQ for insulation you might not need a GE for winter use ;-)
    I've been waiting patiently for this. My wife has a sewing machine. Thinking maybe its time to learn............................

  10. #370

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    I have the alpha version of Luke's 90 deg hammock and I have a different opinion on some of the points that hutzelbein makes.

    1,3,4: My hammock does not have a double bottom and does not use a pad. I find it very comfortable.

    On the other points I basically agree. I'm 5`11" and the hammock is just barely long enough. I haven't figured out how to do an underquilt yet, but I very much want to. Just watch the process of getting into a Draumr 90 deg in Shug's videos and I think you'll see why. The tarp is also a tricky thing. The shape of the hammock makes it hard to get good coverage.

    I would just emphasize the comfort of Luke's hammock. I find it far easier to get comfortable and sleep in it than in my Hennessy. I think that there are design tweeks that haven't been explored, so I'll probably do some sewing on that when I get time.

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