Below Freezing test hang w/ the basics

[Randy]

As a PROUD Pound Hog aka car/canoe camper, we are aware of the extra weight,,,,if this stuff was to be back packed, I know I would not be so gung ho on them.

The goal was to come up with a simple basic, rig, with out having to use all the extras.

Bottom line, a fellar can take some pretty low temps in a hammock with the ECW, and a few extra clothes, ( that would be worn anyway, if a person was out in 20 to 30 degree temps).

My Pack takes a 2" ball anyway, and I have to keep the wheel bearings greased.......

[wisenber]

I'm a staunch proponent of hyoh. If you like what you use, that's great. I see Tipi Walter (from Whiteblaze) carrying 75lb packs with giant 4-season tents and a -25 bag. That's what he likes. I personally would have problems covering 5 miles in a day with a 75lb pack in the mountains around here.

My point was that how much actual warmth do you get for 8 lbs? If the single piece of gear would keep me warm on top and bottom at say 10 degrees, I'd consider lugging it for the sake of simplicity and ease of use. If it only kept me warm to 30 degrees, I'd probably not be too excited about it.

If I put on a snow mobile suit and some headgear, I could probably sleep with just a pillow down to 35. Alan's post gives me a better feel for what this setup actually does.

I'm not trying to do a rain dance before any parades here, I'm just trying to see how warm it keeps someone on top and bottom. I usually try to get a feel for how far my gear alone can take me. I use extra clothes as a buffer to take me below that.

[Randy]

No rain dance on my parade,,,,

The ECW works top and bottom with out all the extras,,as in UQ TQ, CCf or inflatable pad, ,,,for me it is worth the extra effort "Packing" it from the gear trailer to the canoe or to the camp ground site.

There is a few differnt threads on here about the ECW bags,,, I think it has been used down to @ 18 degrees lastnight......With extra clothes.....

Randy

[Alan]

No rain on my parade, either. I'm glad Randy found the ECW bag and that I was able to get one, too. My search for the ultimate cold weather setup is over.

I wish I had a better answer for your inquiry, wisenber, but I haven't found just how low I can go with just the ECW yet...and it has been VERY cold in my neck of the woods lately. Well below freezing the last couple of nights, mid to low 20s, and I'd guess a bit cooler than that where Randy lives.

I continue to be impressed with this piece of gear.

[wisenber]

If it works, I don't mind packing it either. I used a Peapod, a Te-Wa 3-season, a No Sniveler and a a DriDuck hammock sock to get down to 1* F last night. All of that weighs about 5lbs and requires some assembly. Being tired and hungry with cold fingers, I would have loved to carry three extra pounds and just rolled out one item into a hammock.

That being said, once I set up everything I was able to take care of the hungry part. After I climbed into my multi-layered system, the tired and clod fingers part was also resolved.

I would be curious to hear how well that system handles perspiration and respiration. My weathershield does a good job of keeping frost off of my bag and out of my insulation. However, I do have to be cautious about respiration and insensible perspiration wetting out my insulation.

[Randy]

Its really not a system, just a plain old sleeping bag.

The ECW Extreme Cold Weather is rated for -30 it is not the M1949 ,down version, it does have synthetic insulation but it does not compact like the modern sleeping bags.
I have used it now down to 18 degrees with only the fleece blankets inside the bag underneath me, and NO CONDENSATION.

The Modular 3 piece is another story, yes it is rated for -30 also, but the insulation compresses to much on the bottom.

I used the Modular again last night,, my thermometer said 16 degrees but the Weather site said 22 degrees, FROST on everything out side, I used a surplus self inflating pad, inside between the Gortex bivy and the outer green bag, I stayed warm and comfortable all night.

I did get condensation on the pad on my side, between the top of the pad and the green bag. But not enough to cause any heat loss issue.

As far as a weather sheild, I have been using a Hennessy the last few nights, no weather sheild, such as the SS or my dri duck skin has been used on the bottom and no tarp or top cover has been used. Frost gets all over the net, and hammock.

When I have used the ECW in the Grand Trunk, open top, no tarp, no top cover, just the hammock and the bag, I would get frost all over the bag and hammock, but it dries very quiclky when the sun would come up, or when I took it in the house to dry.

As far as clothing I have dressed to the extreme, and also to a practicle minimum. The Extreme bag is the cats meow,,,,,It can handle the cold, does not get the condensation and a person does not need to dress in a snow mobile suit,

Heres my take,
The ECW- Extreme Cold Weather bag, hands down is the better bag, basic set up, top center zipper, and minimum bottom insulation needed, Hang the hammock, lay out the sleeping bag, and good to go,!!! for me)

The ICW- Intermeadiate Cold Weather bag is great, same construction as the ECW, basic set up, and again only minimum bottom insulation needed ( for me) Minimum as in I have been using those fleece throws only on the bottom inside, they don't slide around like in other bags.

The Modular 3 piece with the Gortex bivy is a good stand alone bag. The Gortex bivy is awsome in the cold wind and rain protection department. This bag has advantages and disadvantages, it is actually 2 totaly seperate sleeping bags the snap inside each other to make a thick sleeping bag, that also snap into the Gortex bivy. The three together do great in the teens. BUT extra insulation like a pad is needed. When using a pad, you get back to the condensation thing.

All three bags work well, with alittle moisture on them from the frost or even melting frost. The Modular has the Gortex bivy and can take a direct hit from rain.

The whole idea of messing with these bags was to find a bag, to get away from having to use any weather sheild type set up, not having to use any pad, CCF or other, and no top cover.

Granted all these bags are heavy, but as stated a bazillion times they are not for Back Packing unless you are an extreme humper,,,My Opinion.

[oldgringo]

Will the GT Bivy fit over the ECW bag?

[Randy]

The ECW will fit inside the Gortex bivy, the ECW is a top center zipper and the gortex cover is a side zipper,( right side)

It fits, but for me, I think it is tighter,,,, the ECW is a tad wider in the shoulders. BUT It can be used with the ECW or the ICW.

PS..... I didn't get to use the ECW lastnight because I sprayed it with that "Heavy Duty" KIWI stuff and it was still toooooooo strong smellin last night when I set up.

[BillyBob58]

Pound Hog Randy,
Thanks for testing all of this out for us. I have long known that a synthetic bag- used as a bag and not as a quilt- added warmth on the bottom, simply because it was not near as compressible as down. And the heavier the bag the more bottom insulation you get, though I still doubt you will ever get as much on the bottom as on top. IOW, I would be surprised if those -30 bags would do -30 without some kind of pad or UQ. But as you have proven, no problem at 16. And I have started threads in the past claiming my opinion that using a synthetic bag would lower the weight one had to carry in UQs or pads.

In much the same way, on my recent thread about my new personal HHSS record, I was carrying on about how bombproof my synthetic TNF 4 lb bag was. I know it adds warmth on the bottom, but I have never put it to the test by itself. I don't think I would make it much below 30 or 40 by itself, if even that low. But who knows, I have not tried it!

But no surprise, it does not weigh 12 pounds! Which is what the bag weighed at the link I followed. As you have pointed out, irrelevant for your purposes. But for the mostly weight obsessed hikers here, that would weigh several times more than the UQs and TQs for zero degree system ( maybe 3 lbs?). And of course, the packing size would be many times larger. Intolerable for the gram weenies and their small packs.

But you know that and have made no pretenses other wise. And I'm thinking that for car camping or anything else where weight and volume do not matter, you have really hit on something. Very interesting!

Side note on ease of use: when it comes to ease of set up: once I have a Pea Pod, HHSS or WBUQ set up, I tend to leave them on the hammock. Sometimes I even leave the TQ in there. Then once the hammock is hung, everything for the bottom is ready to go. After that, it is pretty darn easy to just hop in the hammock and pull your TQ over you and/or close the Pea Pod.

Thanks again for the experiments! At the cost, I may look into this just for fun!

[Alan]

Will the GT Bivy fit over the ECW bag?

Randy and I were talking and brainstorming the other day. I got out the bivy and put the ECW in it. It works, I was able to zip up the bivy, and would have been totally waterproof...but it is tight. Good thing I'm only about 5'10"! Any taller and I would have been cramped using this setup.

I could throw the ECW into the bivy and then plop it into any hammock with no need for a tarp. That bivy could take hurricane-force rain and keep me totally dry.