You're Doing Underquilts All Wrong. Get A Clew ;-)

**Dingletrut** · 02-19-2017, 11:57

Originally Posted by jcksparow

Unless I'm missing something, isn't that essentially what the original design was?

I believe this thread has come full circle

**kitsapcowboy** · 02-19-2017, 12:03

Originally Posted by Dingletrut

I believe this thread has come full circle

After 25,000 views and 340 responses...probably. Likely to get unwieldy soon as it approaches 40 pages...

**Philster** · 02-21-2017, 10:18

I have a question, can't see if anyone has answered it yet in this thread. Is there a minimum number of nettles that work? I mean would six still have enough effect? Or even 5 or 4? I assume some of you who have tried this method must have test hung an UQ with just a few strands to check the length so I wonder if you could get away with fewer?
I only ask as I notice that having too many strands causes a deleterious effect so I wonder where the other end of the envelope lays. I'm just finishing off my UQ build and had so many ideas running through my head

Thanks,
Phil

**onesojourner** · 02-21-2017, 10:33

Originally Posted by Philster

I have a question, can't see if anyone has answered it yet in this thread. Is there a minimum number of nettles that work? I mean would six still have enough effect? Or even 5 or 4? I assume some of you who have tried this method must have test hung an UQ with just a few strands to check the length so I wonder if you could get away with fewer?
I only ask as I notice that having too many strands causes a deleterious effect so I wonder where the other end of the envelope lays. I'm just finishing off my UQ build and had so many ideas running through my head

Thanks,
Phil

Also take into account the size of the shock cord and whether it is doubled up or not.

**leiavoia** · 02-21-2017, 11:29

@onesojourner: Right. The ideal number of nettles is infinity. Elastic fabric would do this.

You can compensate for the force of more nettles by using thinner shock cord.

I have 7 nettles on one model and have messed with simply unhooking some to get down to 5 or 6. Some have just added a single pullout to the middle for a total of 3. With this few number, however, the edge scalloping Becomes more than just a cosmetic issue and requires a cinch cord or some other mitigation.

For the best shape fitting properties, I'm thinking about 5 would be the minimum.

**onesojourner** · 02-21-2017, 11:39

So 5 minimum. Is that doubled up(really 10) and is that with the default 1/16th shock cord?

**leiavoia** · 02-21-2017, 11:41

Mine are doubled up loops using the 5-minute whipped clew method. (2 nails in a board). I use 1/16"

**xrayextra** · 02-21-2017, 11:51

Originally Posted by OlTrailDog

why would you want to snap/unsnap the clew instead of leaving it in place?

I made mine with Para cord loops sewn in place then looped the shock cord through them. I see the advantage of being able to remove the clew+nettles for cleaning and "fluffing up in the dryer" purposes mainly, and I'm considering changing it by implementing s-biners (the very small #0 size, about 1" long) in order to make it removable. I really don't want the snaps because I'm an ultra-light hiker and the extra weight of of the entire contraption is unnecessary IMO. The weight of 20 s-biners may even be too much (10 nettles each end). I'll see when I get them.

Secondly, what size shock cord are folks gravitating toward using. I was thinking 1/8", but is 1/16" better and 1/8" overkill?

1/8 is a bit thick. I started out with that then quickly changed. I actually used 1/32 shock cord and it works fine, but I am going to change it out to the 1/16 shock cord. While the 1/32 works, I don't think it will stand up to the rigors of daily use, putting up and taking down every day. I'll be thru-hiking the pct this year so it will take a lot of abuse.

**leiavoia** · 02-21-2017, 13:06

plastic snaps are about 1 gram each. I can guarantee that S-biners would be much heavier.

If you go with S-biners, please check to make sure they don't have a little metal burr sticking out that might rip your quilt up. Some of the nite-eyes ones have this issue.

**sqidmark** · 02-21-2017, 18:39

Over the weekend I worked to complete my CDT 3/4 UQ with Clews. It's 60" wide x 45" long. All down was pushed into the keeper end from the cut off end. It does not have faux baffles as I originally planned. It has 16 nettles per end of 1/32 shock cord, each 20.5" long. I'm using mini-ucr's at each end to adjust tension and to shift it in either direction. It does not have draft collars (yet). I plan to make up nettle skins of no-seeum, but without that it weighs 14.7oz (420g).

I tried using midshipman's hitches on the nettles so that I could adjust them individually. With so many nettles of such tiny diameter, each had very little effect, so this proved to be a lesson in futility. I settled on 20.5" for the length, the loops on each end simple overhand-on-a-bight (or whatever it's called). I tried other types of knots, but none really held very well on this shock cord. This cord came from paracord planet (amazon) and is not of the same quality that Dutch sells, but Dutch doesn't offer 1/32. Not that this stuff is real bad, I've had much worse, but it's certainly not the best out there.

I started out with .095 trimmer string in the end channels for the nettles to grab. This seemed to work very well at keeping the worst of the wrinkles flattened and allowed the gathering to slide easily. This was great at the head end, but the foot end had more gaps than I cared for. This is not to be confused with scalloping. I changed that end to .065 trimmer string. This helped only marginally so I switched to 3/32 shock cord in the cinch channel. Surprisingly this isn't a whole lot better. The combination of the button holes and either trimmer string or shock cord along with 16 nettles keeps the edges from scalloping like seen in many others. I decided to stick with the shock cinch cords because they should pack a bit better and it wasn't worth the hassle to change 'em again.

The primary reason I went with the clews is to reduce the side pressures associated with primary suspension. Mission accomplished.

Sunday night it was ready for an indoor test drive. It's definitely warmer than my conventionally suspended single layer cdt's cut to 45" wide, but then they don't loft as much as this one does. I slept well all night till nearly 5am. I shifted my weight slightly and noticed I felt a coolness from underneath. I reach under to discover the uq had disappeared, well, sort of. It had shot off completely to one side so it was hanging alongside me. I have no idea what happened. The dog knocked it off for me? After a year of hanging nightly indoors, this would a first. Tried again last night, I didn't sleep very well but no problem at all with the uq.

This is my first 3/4 uq. It really needs to have the head side edge pulled toward the foot end, and the foot side edge pulled toward the head end. It isn't square with the shoulders. This is why the wookie's insulation is angled in the direction of lay. If I were to make another attempt at clews it would not be a 3/4. I would use fewer nettles of larger diameter.

Just a note for those who may not be familiar, the thumbnails are cropping off some of the images, click on them to view full size.

The following 3 images are unladen.

Compare this with my earlier post. Both are of the head end with a live body, but this one has the 3/32 shock cord replacing the .095 trimmer string. Slight gap can't be seen from this angle.

The shadows show the gap. The earlier posted image was using 1/16 nettles. Hmmm...

Head side of foot end.

The gap on the head side is exaggerated here because the quilt was not pulled up evenly on the sides. My wife didn't like the feeling of the nettles against her foot.

BTW, the dog is a Red Heeler, which is a type of Australian Cattle Dog (ACD). I've always said that she'll live forever just to pi** us off. She'll be 15 in July. Her name is Meg, but it should have been PIA.

I have a lot of names for her, few of them complimentary. '200mph' certainly would have been accurately descriptive. She's been through the ringer, several times, but she keeps on tickin'.

I'm pretty sure that the gaps are due to the clews pulling more lengthwise rather than upward. Manually pulling another 6-8" of tension on the clews does nothing to close the gaps. I've thought about draft collars, but I figure without enough upward tension they'll just push the uq further away from the hammock. Well, it's a summer quilt anyway.

Instead of all this suspension nonsense, why not just kam snap the uq directly to the hammock edge hems? Sew grosgrain over the hems for the snaps to go through or sew on short loops to the hems and attach snaps to that. No doubt something like this has been tried before and there must be some logical reason why it may not work.